425: Embracing Whole-Body Transformation with Barbara Holifield

I recently had the pleasure of interviewing Barbara Holifield—a seasoned Jungian analyst, psychotherapist, and somatic psychology expert—on my podcast On the Brink with Andi Simon. Barbara’s insights, drawn from decades of experience and personal transformation, left a deep impression on me, and I’m excited to share our conversation with you. In our discussion, Barbara introduced me (and hopefully you) to the powerful idea that our body is not just a collection of parts but a unified whole, and that true transformation begins when we tune into our physical sensations as much as our thoughts.

What is a “Whole Body Transformation?”

In her new book, Being with the Body in Depth Psychology,  Barbara explores the profound importance of accessing the inwardly felt body in depth psychotherapeutic process to enhance the experience of affective life. She draws her insights from philosophical perspectives, neuroscientific and infant research, developmental theory, and trauma studies. What she discovers is a comprehensive overview of embodiment. From her experience, Barbara offers clinical vignettes to demonstrate the critical value of working with bodily felt implicit relational memory. This approach is particularly important with those who have suffered developmental trauma.

A Journey of Personal Transformation

During our conversation, Barbara shared how her own experiences with trauma and adversity led her to a path of self-discovery and healing. What struck me was her belief that by “dropping the story”—that is, stepping away from the often-limiting narratives we create about our experiences—and instead fully experiencing our bodily sensations, we can connect with a more authentic and grounded version of ourselves. Barbara explained how modern life tends to push us to compartmentalize our experiences, but she reminded me that our mind, heart, and gut are deeply interconnected. Our earliest, instinctual responses, rooted in our sensory and emotional experiences, are just as important as our cognitive interpretations.

Key Take-Aways from Our Interview

1. The Body as an Integrated Whole:
   Barbara challenged the idea that our bodies are just a collection of parts—like a car with separate components. Instead, she stressed that our physical, emotional, and cognitive experiences are all interconnected. This holistic perspective not only helps us understand trauma and adversity but also empowers us to transform those experiences by engaging with our whole selves.
2. Transformation Through Mindful Presence:
   A central theme of our conversation was the transformative power of mindfulness. Barbara emphasized the importance of pausing to feel and acknowledge our physical sensations, especially during challenging moments. By doing so, we can break free from the limiting stories we tell ourselves and access a more balanced, authentic response to life’s ups and downs.
3. Enhanced Communication and Relationship Building:
   Relationships often falter when we let our personal narratives—filled with assumptions and unspoken grievances—take over. Barbara shared how simply expressing our true feelings; by communicating the physical sensations and emotions we experience in the moment, can lead to deeper empathy and understanding. This approach not only fosters healing in ourselves but also strengthens our bonds with others.

You might enjoy this video of our interview on Youtube.

Practical Steps I’m Taking to Better Understand My Body and My Mind

Inspired by Barbara’s wisdom, I’ve started incorporating a few practices into my daily routine, and I’d love for you to try them as well:

• Mindful Sensation Check-Ins:
  I now make it a point to pause throughout the day and check in with my body. I notice my breath, the tension in my shoulders, or the steadiness of my feet. This small act of awareness helps me stay connected to my body, especially during stressful times.
• Journaling My Sensory Experiences:
  After particularly emotional moments, I take a few minutes to jot down the physical sensations I felt. This practice has helped me differentiate between the story my mind creates and the raw, embodied experience of my emotions, providing clearer insights into my responses.
• Engaging in Embodied Movement:
  Whether it’s through yoga, authentic movement, or a mindful walk, I’ve found that engaging in activities that connect me with my body has been transformative. Appreciating simple moments—like a sunrise or a heartfelt connection with a friend—reminds me to experience life fully and authentically.

Final Reflections about Embracing Whole-Body Transformation

My conversation with Barbara Holifield was a profound reminder of the importance of living as a whole, integrated self. By embracing the wisdom of our bodies and recognizing that our physical sensations are as vital as our thoughts, we can transform our relationship with ourselves and others.

I hope you find these insights as inspiring and transformative as I did. Whether you’re dealing with a major life change or simply looking to deepen your self-awareness, I invite you to try these practices and see where the journey takes you. Stay tuned for more conversations that help us all see, feel, and think in new ways.

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Additional resources for you

Reach out and contact us if you want to see how a little anthropology can help your business grow.  Let’s Talk!

 

From Observation to Innovation,

CEO | Corporate Anthropologist | Author
Simonassociates.net
Info@simonassociates.net
@simonandi
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Read the text for our podcast here:

Andi Simon:  00:00:00

Welcome. Welcome to On the Brink with Andy Simon. Thanks for joining us today. You’re going to have a great time listening to our guest. Remember, I’m your host and your guide, and my job is to get you off the brink. But I want you to do is see, feel and think in new ways so you can begin to understand how to change in fast changing times. And as I was talking to our guest today, Barbara Holyfield, about my journey, I’ve realized that people hate to change. And despite learning some new things, all of a sudden, they begin to think about it in a fresh way. And today is very important because of the great transformation that’s happening in our culture and society right now. Barbara, thank you for joining me today.

Barbara Holifield: 00:00:45

I’m delighted to be here and thank you for having me.

Andi Simon: 00:00:48

It’s always fun. Let me share a short bio with the audience so they know why to listen. Barbara Holyfield is a training analyst and member of the c g Young Institute of San Francisco.

Andi Simon: 00:01:02

She indicates the bodily felt dimension of experience in Jungian analysis in depth psychotherapeutic process. Having taught somatic psychology for 20 years at the California Institute of Integral Studies, certified in Somatic Experiencing and an international teacher of authentic movement, a deep feeling for the body pulses through her work, and you’re going to hear that today. Barbara has authored several articles exploring embodiment, trauma, and our participation with the dream of the Earth. Her book, being with the Body in Depth Psychotherapy Development, Trauma, and Transformation in the Unspoken Realm is available through Routledge this past November 2024. And so it’s a newly published book on a great topic. But the thing that our listeners or our viewers should pay attention to is a conversation about why your body is a whole and it’s not a separate bar. It’s not a car with an engine and a transmission. And we think of it in parts. And today, I want you to really pay attention to the integration of this whole body, as Barbara is going to share with you. Barbara.

Andi Simon: 00:02:11

Thank you so much. Tell the audience, who’s Barbara Holley fan? What is your journey all about? And how come we’re talking today?

Barbara Holifield: 00:02:19

Yeah. Well, again, thank you for having me. Thank you for that introduction. so I’m, you know, I’m a, fundamentally, psychotherapist, an analyst, a Jungian analyst. And forever I’ve been drawn to those things that kind of our deepest to our self and most immediate, you know, how it can get guidance from within. And our dreams are one way of that. And art and story feed our dream world. Many people are familiar with Jung through his book memories, Dreams and Reflections, which has inspired so much art, especially film. The mythological dimensions at you as an anthropologist are probably well aware of, you know, the hero with a thousand faces. Just candles? Absolutely. Yeah. And so that world always beckoned me. I began studying psychology at a very young age, a little misguidedly. I came from a, a pretty traumatic background.

Barbara Holifield: 00:03:39

you know, as it goes, it’s a little more than most, but not as much as many, you know. And I kind of wanted to understand my family and, you know, fix them. But of course, that’s impossible. What I came to understand was the journey was with him.

Andi Simon: 00:03:57

You’re not the first person who I’ve interviewed who says something to that effect, that their own life course was influenced by some of the dysfunction in their personal family life, and it opened them up to something that was transformational for them and actually quite inspirational for them. So this is not you are not alone, but I’m glad you shared with us just a little bit.

Barbara Holifield: 00:04:20

Yeah. Yeah, it’s a really important piece of all of what I want to say, that, you know, whether it’s tremendous adversity, you know, and many of us these days, in part because of our generations of history, of immigration and war and trauma and famine and all sorts of things come from adversity. You know, we could call it transgenerational trauma or whatever, but that adversity, if we can turn and deal with it so often, once transformed, gives us our strength, our vision, and our purpose and meaning.

Barbara Holifield: 00:05:07

And that was certainly true for me. So even as I studied Jungian, a Jungian approach to psychotherapy, and in those days, it’s been almost nearly 50 years at this point, you know, humanistic psychology and, you know, a growth model rather than a medical model. I was still struggling and it struggling with shame and problems with eating. You know, kind of the things that a lot of women struggle with. And it was finally an approach that really whetted not just an in-depth look at, my inner world, but with the body and understanding how trauma lives in the body and can be transformed in the body. But even more than that, in our lives and in our body. And the more we can enter the fullness of who we are, there’s this equality of presence and of appreciation for the world and each other that just exponentiated.

Andi Simon:  00:06:19

You know, I as an anthropologist, you, the mythology you were speaking about, would you learn early that humans are uniquely able to provide meaning onto things, and they provide different kinds of meaning? And out of that comes the stories that we create.

Andi Simon:  00:06:38

And the story that we carry becomes the one that we live. We don’t realize that, but we see it as our reality. There’s no reality. And I often say the only truth is there’s no truth. But there is something that’s true about us, and it’s a whole us, not just a piece of us. And so this has been very important for you to begin to understand who am I and how is my past and my present and my future all connected and how? Why do I want to? What do I want the story to shift to? Marissa Pearce has that wonderful book, Change the Story, Change Your Life. And I always love her video material because it helps my clients sometimes realize once you have a locked in story, it’s really hard to see options to it and begin to reframe it. So this new book that you have written that just came out, came about for a particular reason. I suspect you’ve been doing this for a whole lifetime. Yes. And this book is extremely important in many ways.

Andi Simon:  00:07:40

Share with our viewers or our listeners. You know why it was timely to have this book. What’s the book about? And, you know, how could it help them do the kind of Transformational understanding that you’ve done.

Barbara Holifield: 00:07:53

Well, there’s multiple reasons. But, you know, as a psychoanalyst, really, you know, that field is fabulously thoughtful, really helpful with people who have really entrenched difficulties and those who don’t. But it has. In most last couple of decades, given a lot of thought to the body, but entering and being with the experience of the body has been left kind of, you know, in the realm of another, another realm, more, more humanistic psychology. And I wanted to bring the two together. So that’s one part, because they so complement each other. But even more important, I mean, not more importantly, it’s all a big conference. But I’ve heard you speak in the, you know, listening to your podcast a little bit about talking about maybe you didn’t use these words, but the amygdala and fight, fight and flee and how easily were triggered into those kinds of states.

Barbara Holifield: 00:09:08

And those are states that are based in trauma. We’ve learned that from the trauma studies of the recent decades. And it’s one thing to think about it and another thing to drop the story. Yes. And it come into your feeling body where those neurological responses live and meet them and transform them. Because thinking about it, you know, we can think all we want about changing the stories. Sometimes it’s helpful, but when. But what works best is to go in and through, you know, kind of like giving birth to anything. The only way out is through. Yes. And, and the problem on word, whether it’s a little distress or a great distress, really, whether it’s trauma or, you know, I’ve been slighted by someone at work, they didn’t understand what I was meaning. And their comment, you know, just peeved me. And it’s hard to get out of this mood and. Yeah. You know, little distress. Our tendency is to either override it or say, oh, wasn’t that big a deal.

Barbara Holifield: 00:10:35

I’m just going to get on with my day or. Get caught up in the story about it, as you say. You know, our worries about it, what it means, what they’re thinking of us. You know what we think world, blah blah blah. We want out of this job, you know?

Andi Simon:  00:10:52

Quick little event turns into a huge, life altering moment. And it’s all in the story.

Barbara Holifield: 00:11:00

In the story. And so that notion of drop the story and come down into the feeling body or into your heart. and often that’s, that’s kind of anti-instinctual. You know, instinctually we want to get away from pain. And so it but also instinctually as humans we have this capacity to reflect and to make choice. So that simple act of okay I’m feeling upset. Let me be with that. Just that simple act, you know, and drop down into the body It can, help us be with the real feeling.

Andi Simon:  00:11:50

Yes.

Barbara Holifield: 00:11:51

You know, the genuine feeling. Not our story about it.

Barbara Holifield: 00:11:55

Yes. You know, like. Oh, I feel hurt. I was misunderstood.

Andi Simon:  00:12:00

Not that I’m listening to you and remembering. the only time I went into psychoanalysis was after a horse rolled over on me and broke my back, my neck and gave me a good concussion. And coming out of that. I mean, I really had memory loss, and I had lots of traumata. physical, yes, but emotional. And I had panic attacks and claustrophobia and all of the physicality of it was taking was generating very difficult. Both relationships with my husband and with I, just the whole world seemed to be fractured in a way that I couldn’t make sense out of it. And I’m listening to you because it wasn’t the brain that had to be understood through my heart or me. My body was a body that had to be understood through my brain or altogether. It had to be changed. Yes. And I use that because I like little illustration. Because if you’re saying yes, yes, that’s the kind of thing that it’s a whole body.

Andi Simon: 00:13:00

It wasn’t just a broken piece of it. It was like it. The whole thing was experientially terrifying, traumatic, and I can’t remember it. And that by itself is a story. But for our listeners and our viewers, think about case for yourself, where you really didn’t understand the meaning of something, so you gave it meaning, and it really wasn’t the intended meaning, but you felt comfortable with the way it helped you, you know, react to it. And that becomes a real interesting model for understanding this human connection. We are not just a brain as if it’s a separate organ. It’s a whole body. Am I correct in interpreting what you’re saying? Yes.

Barbara Holifield: 00:13:40

Yes, you are. well, I’m, you know, really taken by what you’ve said. That was a big, a big X, you know, a big accident. And the best of psychoanalysis takes us into our experience, no matter how you know. And the more we and the body can just add to that when we’re really entering the body.

Barbara Holifield: 00:14:07

Yeah. So, you asked me about myself, and, you know, I think about my patients who I have some case studies about in the book. There’s plenty of case studies so people can experience, you know, get a feeling of it from the inside out. And there’s also ways in that are, you know, much more just, every day, not just about trauma. But yeah. I mean, the simplest may be a really simple, example would be, that recently I was expecting a very good friend of mine who’s also a professional physician to give me a referral to, a new doctor. And, when that didn’t happen because of a thousand things that were going on in her world, I easily felt I could. You know, my first thing is, if you’re like, oh, I’m not. She didn’t care about me, you know? And, her way, her expectation of how to, my expectation of what I would do. Isn’t what hers is. Yes. And you know my first response.

Barbara Holifield: 00:15:49

This is my own is to withdraw. Yeah. You know, and it’s just she’s way too good a friend. I know she cares about me way too much to. For any of those stories to be true? Yes. You know. And so when I can drop down just into feeling and away from that story, it’s like, again, it’s like, oh, my shoulders drop a little. My head gets a little more spacious. I feel a little more weighted and a little more grounded in my body. My breath. Is there all those things? And, you know, I just feel a little hurt. Yes. And, Shocked. So it was a little shocking. That’s why I bring it up. It wasn’t just a tiny hurt. It really surprised me.

Andi Simon: 00:16:41

Is that okay? Because I think we can all think through the last 4 or 5 years. It’s been a period of great transformation and lots of little spots where expectations may have been unmet or behaviors unexpected or conversations peculiar. I think that the political climate has created an open willingness to share things that have been injurious to each other.

Andi Simon:  00:17:08

Unintentional or not? What kinds of feelings? They’re just feelings. but they turn into relationships that have gone astray. A little bit like this woman who you thought was going to do something. And. And as you think about it, do I have to fix it? Do I have to deal with it? Can I just go past it? You know, from a health perspective, a personal health perspective. You know, I have a hunch our listeners and our viewers are saying to them as well, I had one of those, but what did I do right or wrong? What did you do right or wrong, Barbara? That made it okay or not okay. Or, you know, how do you keep your friendship? Really profound questions. Because relationships are so hard to build anyhow. And life is complicated today. Thoughts?

Barbara Holifield: 00:17:53

Yeah. Well, you know, there’s nothing like communication.

Andi Simon:  00:17:58

Yes.

Barbara Holifield: 00:18:00

You know and just letting a friend or a colleague know that while when you did this, I felt that I felt a little hurt.

Barbara Holifield: 00:18:10

And by being able to empathize with myself, you know, I feel my colleague’s response. Oh, that’s not at all what I had in mind. You know, usually it’s not about my story, you know? I can drop down into the immediacy of, oh, okay, let me take that in. And from there, my empathy opens for the other. Together. And there we are as two persons who, you know, have good intentions, sometimes hurt each other. But it’s not the end of the world, you know, it’s not that big a deal. We’re both humans. Yes.

Andi Simon:  00:18:49

You know, and I do think that is extremely important during the changes that are coming. Part of your book is a transformation in the unspoken realm through development, trauma and transformation. Do you come out a different person transformed, or how, how, how should people visualize that transition from a moment which wasn’t what was expected from someone who you cared about, perhaps or not, to something that you change and come out different and with better skills or scope, or maybe less so to deal with it in the future.

Andi Simon:  00:19:22

You know a little bit about the transformation part. Am I interpreting that correctly?

Barbara Holifield: 00:19:26

Sure, sure. Yeah. And it’s always good to take these little, incidences because the more we can be with little things or things one bit at a time, the easier it is to address something that’s really hard. You know, it’s a kind of part of working with trauma is to titrate and go bit one bit at a time, because when things are really hard, it usually was more than we could handle it to start with. And we don’t want to deal with it all at once. so the transformation is. Am I a different person? I’m a person that’s centered in my whole self, not a part of myself and my story. And so from that whole self, I can trust myself and trust you or the other person. And things grow and build from there. And I deepen and I’m a better, you know, more connected person and more open to who I really am. Which from there. you know, that’s where vision and passion comes from.

Barbara Holifield: 00:20:40

Yeah.

Andi Simon:  00:20:41

Yeah. Tell me a little bit about how to think about this with young, Young. I have grandkids, and they’re younger. and they’re all maturing faster. And life is full of challenges and interesting opportunities, disappointments, expectations, managing others. They’re learning on the job and the wisdom you might share with them and their parents to develop skills at coping and beginning to understand this whole-body transformation that goes on so that it’s not an event, but it does affect them in many ways. And, I have a hunch their dreams are full of these goods and bads, you know. Hello? No.

Barbara Holifield: 00:21:24

Go ahead.

Andi Simon: 00:21:25

No. Please. Your turn.

Barbara Holifield: 00:21:28

Yeah. So often when we feel we’ve done something off or we’re troubled or, you know, something’s unresolved in us. That can transform in a story to either I’m bad or here’s the way I’m going to get out of this, you know, some grand vision of transformation that’s kind of idealized, you know, or over, you know, grandiose or, you know, just more than it’s actually realistic.

Barbara Holifield: 00:22:01

And, young people often feel a lot of pressure, a lot, a lot, a lot of pressure to achieve or to make money or to get in the right relationship and all that can be fine. But when it takes over, then it, you know, and it’s driving the person. It’s imbalanced. Yeah, it’s imbalanced. And it can, kind of become haunting, you know, and repetitive. And so to, It’s the simplest act. You know, I’ve heard you talk about mindfulness in your work and to include a somatic aspect to that, so that when we pay attention to breathing, it’s not just that we are breathing, but feeling the breath enter and go through us and settle down. It’s just sort of like it’s these little moments of pausing and turning. Inward towards oneself and creating that sense of presence that really allows, you know, a fuller body, a kind of way to address any problem. I’m thinking about young people, with and that it’s not always an easy turn.

Barbara Holifield:00:23:46

So I say that, but I know it’s not easy, you know? And so starting out with little bits, sometimes with the least bits that are things we love. Yes. In a bit. The sunrise in the morning or a piece of art, or watching our kid, you know, discover something or our dog come, you know, happily greet us every day. And to feel that fully, you know, to like, not just think, oh, how wonderful, but to start to drop down in a daily practice way, like, oh, if I really relax myself and go down. My heart opens, you know. I start to feel my pelvis and my legs, and I’m feeling more grounded and actually more here with my kid.

Andi Simon: 00:24:42

And those are not intuitive skills or experiences. So, you know, I learned when I was doing, I mean, I’m not a meditator, I like mindful. I don’t know why,  but you begin to think about how you feel it in your feet and up your legs and begin to think about the body feeling as opposed to just being.

Andi Simon: 00:25:07

And it’s you want to say something to me, but I just I like that it takes me. Yes.

Barbara Holifield: 00:25:15

I love that you say that because it helps me kind of keep narrowing down what I want to say. Sensations to be with felt sensations is transformative. You know, we just so often turn towards thinking and visioning and thoughts and, you know, story. And it just be with sensation and include our whole being in anything we do. We, you know, we often think of the brain as residing just in our head, but in fact, we have these three parallel, process distributed processing networks in our body. Ones in our head, one’s in our heart, and one’s in our gut. The new cutting edge of neuroscience teaches us that. And it’s actually the first our head brain was originally evolutionary, you know. Developed to support the other ones.

Andi Simon:  00:26:17

That’s correct. You know, and the oldest part of the brain is the feeling part. And, you know, they didn’t have to analyze how to stay at arm’s way.

Andi Simon:  00:26:25

They had to respond and move fast. And I think that’s very important to me because loving evolution as I, I do. I mean, we are a complicated critter. I mean, we added a whole layer on top of just surviving.

Barbara Holifield: 00:26:40

That’s right. And the more we override our, you know, that evolutionary basis by saying, oh, it’s okay, or I can go on or this is more interesting, or this idea will get me out of it. Then the further we get away from the gifts of that. Yes. You know, the sensory experience of connecting with someone you love or being in the world we love. We’re it’s part of our whole being. Yeah. And, you know, whether it’s our, aesthetic appreciation of art or our vision of how to create the world we want, it’s a whole organism that’s here doing it.

Andi Simon:  00:27:26

Barbara, I can talk to you for a long time. I have a hunch our listeners would love to know more, but we’re about ready to wrap us up and give the listener, the viewer one, 2 or 3 things they should remember to take aways, because I think it’s important.

Andi Simon:  00:27:42

They often remember the end better than the beginning. And I would like you to think through what them would. What? What should we remember here? What do you think?

Barbara Holifield: 00:27:51

Yeah. Few things. One is that that moment you begin to really focus out of yourself, you know, and think about its someone else’s fault or a vision or what I have to do to just take that slight turn inward and notice your sensations, just that tiny move and let your breath support it and just see what happens. And the more and make it a practice and let it evolve and explore it. Be curious whether you’re exercising, which is a great time to turn exercise not into something you do to look better, or to simply feel healthier, but that it’s integrating your whole self and to turn your faults, you know, to turn towards your experience, your felt sensations. Suddenly you’ll feel a self-regulating transformation, you know, like dream space. And by that, I mean it frees up your imagination.

Barbara Holifield: 00:29:03

Yeah.

Andi Simon:  00:29:04

It’s so interesting. And I think to your point, what we’ve begun to learn about this whole body is, is it’s causing us to take a look at it and rethink how we do things. Our eyes are extraordinary. Appointment for making decisions. The brain comes in to give it a reason. It’s not what you think. You know, I used to teach a course on. Is your data talking to you? Can you hear it? Because everybody gets so caught up in the brain that they can’t feel what the story is that it’s telling you. And so these are interesting times, aren’t they?

Barbara Holifield: 00:29:38

Yeah. We all have our little bit of a different way of speaking it. And yet I think we’re getting all towards reclaiming something that as fabulous as our world has been. You know, and that kind of the whole emphasis of learning about the world through parts, you know, learning about our brain, learning about our heart. You know, having these fabulous innovations in medicine and technology, bringing it all back together in a more interrelated, collaborative perspective, whether, yes, we are part of the earth, just like we are part of our bodies, it’s not something that we have to force to do for our minds.

Andi Simon:  00:30:23

Like we don’t have time today, but at some point, you’ll come back because I have too many friends who have gone through important, health situations. you know, a stent put in, you know, a new valve. And the emotional side has not been what they had anticipated. And that whole body hasn’t left with a better heart. It’s come out in a sadder state, and they’re trying to figure out why emotionally, they’re so traumatized. because something should be elevating and celebrating. Not for today. But you can say one thing. Go ahead. No, I’d.

Barbara Holifield: 00:31:00

Love to do that. Trauma is more complicated. It is. And.

Andi Simon:  00:31:03

Yes, but it’s, but these are interesting times. And the mechanical side is so sophisticated. Yes. Sometimes. Forget there’s a whole body here.

Barbara Holifield: 00:31:12

Yeah, yeah.

Andi Simon:  00:31:13

Well, Barbara, the principles.

Barbara Holifield: 00:31:16

Principles remain the same. Yes. In those situations. Yeah.

Andi Simon:  00:31:21

Well, you’re smiling, and I am Barbara Holifield has been our guest today.

Andi Simon:  00:31:25

The name of your book again is.

Barbara Holifield: 00:31:27

Being with the Body in Depth. Psychology. Development, trauma and transformation in the Unspoken Realm.

Andi Simon: 00:31:38

And I hope our listeners today have gotten a real good feel for what this is all about and why they should both buy the book. Read it. How could they reach you? Do you have a website?

Barbara Holifield: 00:31:47

I do, it’s my name. Barbara Holyfield. Com. They can look me up on Facebook, the book up on Facebook or Instagram and LinkedIn.

Speaker 3 00:32:01

Yeah.

Andi Simon: 00:32:02

It must be on LinkedIn is a new directory. You don’t need a telephone directory. You need a LinkedIn directory.

Barbara Holifield: 00:32:08

Exactly.

Andi Simon: 00:32:08

I want to say goodbye to my listeners and my viewers. Thank you for coming today. You know, my books are all there on Amazon. I push mine a little bit gently. the work we do with companies helps them see, feel and think in new ways. And today’s conversation is really about exactly those things. If you’re going to change, you have to see it.

Andi Simon: 00:32:29

You have to feel it. And then you can think about it before you do it, because that’s a whole-body approach, even for your organization’s body. You know, all those people in there need to visualize what it is you’re trying to achieve, or they won’t know what the words mean, and they’ll make up their own story about them. So the timing of this is quite fascinating. And I’m delighted, if you’d like a little hand from us on how to help your company change. You can look us up at Simon Associates Dot net. And clearly, we are LinkedIn folks too. And it’s fun to find everybody there who just is sharing similar ideas. Barbara, it’s been a pleasure. I’m going to say goodbye. Please take your observations, turn them into innovations. Let us know how you’re doing and come visit and share. Goodbye now.