This podcast is about an amazing woman and her journey from Wall Street to Purpose-Driven Leadership. Meet India Gary-Martin’s and listen to her amazing journey to Chair the Women Business Collaborative (WBC).
On this episode of On the Brink with Andi Simon, I had the great pleasure of speaking with India Gary Martin—an accomplished global executive, entrepreneur, and now the new Chair of the Women Business Collaborative (WBC). India’s story is more than a professional journey—it’s an inspiring narrative about opportunity, resilience, and leadership rooted in purpose.
A Global Journey Rooted in Advocacy
India began her career with ambitions far from Wall Street—initially pursuing drama at Spelman College, an all-women’s institution that helped shape her lifelong commitment to advancing women. A pivot to business led her to Wall Street, where she spent nearly 25 years rising through the ranks and across borders, holding CEO and CTO roles in major financial institutions. Her global career took her to London, Frankfurt, Tokyo, and Hong Kong, all while raising a family and nurturing a growing passion for justice and equity.
Through it all, India remained grounded in one core belief: opportunity emerges when you stay open to change. Her career was not meticulously planned but rather built through taking chances—ones that would later translate into entrepreneurial ventures and global leadership roles.
From Banking to Beauty: The Entrepreneurial Chapter
India’s foray into entrepreneurship was sparked not only by her desire to chart her own path but by a wake-up call. After returning from a business trip, her young daughter barely recognized her. It was a moment of reckoning—and renewal.
What followed was a bold leap: the launch of a green nail polish line that grew from two retail shops in London to 300 stores across Europe and the Middle East, including Harvey Nichols and Space NK. But success is never linear. Brexit disrupted the business, scaring off investors and forcing India to shut it down. “It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done,” she told me, “but I learned how to pivot, and that failure isn’t failure—it’s just learning.”
Her next chapter returned her to her roots in leadership. With Leadership for Execs and Lucent Learning, India created scalable coaching and leadership development platforms for companies, governments, and nonprofits. She also launched Act Three, a community designed to support women in midlife transition. Each venture reflects her holistic vision of leadership: adaptive, inclusive, and deeply human.
Carrying Forward a Vision: Honoring Edie Fraser
The Women Business Collaborative (WBC), which India now chairs, was founded by the remarkable Edie Fraser, a visionary leader in her own right. Edie had a bold and clear mission: to accelerate progress for women in business by uniting the efforts of organizations, corporations, and individuals under a single collaborative umbrella. She recognized that too many were working in silos—fighting the same battles for equal pay, position, and power. Edie’s vision was both simple and powerful: we can go farther, faster, together. Her leadership transformed a concept into a movement, building a platform that now connects over 80 partner organizations, dozens of corporate champions, and countless advocates committed to equity. India Gary Martin steps into this legacy with both reverence and readiness, taking WBC into its next chapter of impact.
You will enjoy watching our podcast with India here:
Why WBC, Why Now?
India’s appointment as Chair of the Women Business Collaborative couldn’t have come at a more important time. As she told me, “WBC has a tremendous opportunity right now to be a beacon for women in business. It’s not just about convening—it’s about shaping the future.”
With over 80 partner organizations, sponsors, and donors, WBC stands at the forefront of driving change. India brings to it not just experience, but a deeply reflective, philosophical approach to leadership. She believes that collaboration doesn’t mean compromising your mission—it means amplifying what unites us.
“I don’t believe in pushing the boulder uphill,” she said. “We do this with ease because it’s who we are. It’s how we operate.”
Leading by Redesigning the Container
One of the most profound insights India shared during our conversation was about the importance of culture in shaping behavior. “People behave as the container creates,” she explained. Rather than focusing on fixing people, she argues, organizations should focus on fixing the environment in which they operate.
This anthropological lens is close to my heart. Culture isn’t changed with a program or a policy—it’s transformed through trust, relationships, and the daily experiences that shape how people feel and behave. As India noted, work has become transactional. We must bring it back to being relational.
A Call to Community
As we wrapped up our conversation, India left listeners with three powerful takeaways:
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You are not alone. Find your tribe. WBC is one of them.
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Opportunity is everywhere. Even the stormiest moments will pass—every storm runs out of rain.
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We are better together. None of the changes we seek can happen in isolation. Collaboration is not a strategy—it’s a necessity.
Don’t Miss the Women’s Capital Summit
India also shared her excitement for the upcoming Women’s Capital Summit in New York City on May 21–22. This event is all about connecting women founders with funders—and building the future of shared success. “Founders and funders, please come out,” she urged. “This is a real moment for us.”
Final Thoughts
India Gary Martin’s story reminds us that the path to leadership isn’t always straight—but it is always full of opportunity if we stay open. She embodies the power of living with purpose, leading with vision, and building together.
To learn more, listen to the full podcast on On the Brink with Andi Simon and be sure to check out WBC’s work and the Women’s Capital Summit. Let’s go further, faster—together.
Other podcasts you will enjoy:
432: Gloria Bohan: From School Teacher to Travel Titan
419: Jennifer Leslie: Transform your Business with Self Awareness
405: How Denielle Finkelstein and Thyme Sullivan Are Revolutionizing Period Care
Additional resources for you:
- My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Business and On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
- Our newest book, Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored with Edie Fraser and Robyn Freedman Spizman
- All of our white papers, particularly those on Blue Ocean Strategy
- Our Medium publications (come friend us)
- Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants
Listen + Subscribe:
Available wherever you get your podcasts—Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, YouTube, and more. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review and share with someone navigating their own leadership journey.
Reach out and contact us if you want to see how a little anthropology can help your business grow. Let’s Talk!
From Observation to Innovation,
CEO | Corporate Anthropologist | Author
Simonassociates.net
Info@simonassociates.net
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Read the text for our podcast here:
Andi Simon
00:00:02
Welcome to On the Brink with Andy Simon, a podcast that’s designed to help you get off the brink make sense in today’s very fast changing world. As an anthropologist, we’re looking at a culture going through a great transformation, and my job is to help you see, feel, and think in new ways. Be a little anthropological. Step out. Look at what’s happening to yourself, your family, your friends, and your organizations in a very clear perspective. Don’t look at it from the inside in, but from the outside. And then you begin to see things in new ways. I have a wonderful woman here today who I think is going to inspire you to think about your place as a woman and a man in this wonderful world. India Gary Martin is the new chair of the Women’s Business Collaborative, an organization Edith Frazier founded and I’ve been a member of for five years. It’s an organization that was designed to bring together other organizations to collaborate. And its purpose is to get equal position, pay, and power for all women in business.
Andi Simon
00:01:08
India comes in as the second chair and in her great endeavor here, she’s bringing fresh perspective. And we’re going to talk a little bit about all of this in a moment. And her own journey, which is very interesting. I do want to put a little pitch in for those of you who are listening or watching. There’s a wonderful event coming May 21st and 22nd in New York called the Women’s Capital Summit. I’m just reading my notes and it’s investing for impact building a future of shared success. And it’s a time for you to come and talk about your business, find advocates for it, and find ways of funding it. Perhaps, but it’s a marvelous time for you to think about opportunities that the Women Business Collaborative brings to you and your business with that. Who’s India? Let me give you a short story about why you should listen so carefully. She’s held global CEO and CTO positions at some of the world’s largest institutions. She said expat assignments for a combined 20 years in London, Frankfurt, Tokyo, and Hong Kong.
Andi Simon
00:02:09
I said to you, she’s going to bring you quite a robust journey to talk about her post as corporate career. She’s a seasoned public and private company, board of directors for institutions in the US and the UK. I think WBC is truly honored to have her and excited about her vision for Women Business Collaborative a little bit more through her own company, leadership for execs. India is a globally recognized leadership expert and strategic advisor. And remember, we have had a leadership academy and several clients for several years now, eight years and one. So this is not inconsequential. Building leadership teams around the globe is something she has expertise in, and I’m anxious to pick her brain. She’s also the founder of Lucent Learning, a tech training and development business providing scalable, high quality leadership development, and a white labeled learning management platform to corporate, governmental, and nonprofit entities. She’s going to tell you more, but I know she’s smiling, and I am as well. It’s wonderful to have you here, India. Thank you so much for joining us.
India Gary-Williams
00:03:12
Andy, thank you so much for having me. This is I’ve been looking forward to this. I have to tell you, sitting down with you and after being a listener and hearing you and now being able to be here, I’m delighted. Thank you for having me.
Andi Simon
00:03:24
Well, let’s share with our listeners or our viewers your journey, not because I can tell them your bio a little bit, but you, when you talk about your journey, fill us with wisdom. And it’s difficult to duplicate it except through the experiences you’ve had. So who is India and how have you journeyed?
India Gary-Williams
00:03:40
So who is India? I am the and I always start from the beginning because I think it’s the nice place and that is that I am the eldest girl of seven. so I so I always, I often joke and say to people that I have my own three children, but I also have six others, so I actually have, I have nine. I am the second mother to all of my siblings. But no, I you know I am.
India Gary-Williams
00:04:01
I am a at my heart, keen advocate for women, keen advocate for justice more broadly. I have been playing in the women’s space and I’ll talk about my, my career space because it does take us through a journey of how I got here. but I but I am a keen advocate in the women’s space and have been since I really started actively doing this, this work around women in business in 1998. That was kind of my genesis, my kickoff year, and I’ll come to how that happened. So I, I did my university degree at Spelman College, all women’s University in Atlanta, which again started a part of my thinking around women and the importance of us in this society. It was bred into me. I then went on to Wall Street and I’ll explain. That journey was an interesting one because, it says something about women in our condition and what we are told we can and can’t do. And I entered university as a drama major, a theatre major, but that was my goal.
India Gary-Williams
00:05:07
I was going to be on stage, and in some ways I still am. In some ways.
Andi Simon
00:05:12
That’s a whole other conversation.
India Gary-Williams
00:05:13
That’s a whole.
Andi Simon
00:05:14
Different conversation on stage.
India Gary-Williams
00:05:15
But we are. But the thing that that, kind of challenged me about that was thinking that I wouldn’t make it like, how am I going to make a living doing this thing? and so I changed history. Pre-Law, which didn’t work out either, obviously. I went to Wall Street and landed on Wall Street journey there. The kind of message there is, allow things to emerge and they will take you on the path that you’re supposed to. So I went to Wall Street, where I was for, for almost 25 years in a variety of capacities. You know, I think, you know, you mentioned my expat experience. And, I knew very early on as a child of a USAID person, that I wanted to live in the world and that I didn’t want to just live in the US. So I, you know, it’s my home country.
India Gary-Williams
00:06:00
I mean, it was for me always about living in the world. And banking platforms gave me the opportunity to do that. I knew that I wanted to be in a multinational. I knew that I wanted to travel the world. So it was, how do I get from one place to another? And banking was the choice that I made. I was in the US for, I guess, 5 or 6 years before I went to the UK, where I was for several years, met my husband and had my children. I will say this about that kind of expat journey and what it taught me, and I went on to other parts of Europe and Asia. and that was, being opportunistic. And it goes back to that theme of mine around allowing things to emerge but taking opportunity when it comes. personally, I’ve never been an absolute planner about things about like my career path or what that path might be. I like, and I’m good at a lot of different things, so I wanted to give myself the space.
India Gary-Williams
00:06:53
That wasn’t always intentional. It was a source of great frustration at some points, not having that kind of like, I absolutely want to do this. but once I had the level of professional maturity to recognize the gift and being able to allow things to emerge and identifying opportunities and leveraging those opportunities to get to what I wanted to get to. that was the big shift for me. And so, you know, I spent all of this time in the corporate space. Fast forward to 2014 and decided that it was time for me to do something different when my youngest child at the time, who might have been three and I was an old mother. So let’s just leave that there. the youngest was three or 3 or 4. Maybe she was. And I came home from a business trip. I traveled a lot in my last job. I think I traveled 70% of the time. my child wouldn’t come to me, and she would only go to the person who was keeping her. And that was a real kind of wakeup call for me.
India Gary-Williams
00:07:50
and so I made the foray into entrepreneurship as a as a part of that. and I started my companies the first 1 in 2014. I’m actually a full-time entrepreneur now. and that that has created it’s there’s a journey in that too, in recognizing failure. And that failure isn’t actually a failure. It’s all it really is. Learning for the next thing. Yes. perseverance, which is which is critically important. But I think the bigger part of the entrepreneurial journey that I’ve learned is I kind of think about what that look like, is that you have to be prepared to take risk because without there is no reward without risk. particularly for women founders who often are underfunded and who tend to start, starting from a zero point. that journey is a really interesting one. I’ll pause there because I’m sure there’s lots that we can talk about. but that’s but that’s kind of that’s my journey. I went from, you know, a child of a USAID person to a. To an all-women’s college, to Wall Street, to an expat life into entrepreneurship.
India Gary-Williams
00:08:58
I’ve had quite a quite a ride, I would say.
Andi Simon
00:09:00
Well, you know, I’m just in reflecting on what you’re saying, and I often think of it from an audience perspective. I when I took my, my self-assessment, I became an explorer and I said, well, I’m an anthropologist. That works. I love your concept of living in the world. You know, it’s it is exploring it. It’s understanding that I don’t know what I don’t know. and then being open to serendipity, opportunity, chance, and your listener, you hear things and from there you turn things into stuff. I do want to talk about your entrepreneur. You’ll experience so. But you’re also, a philosopher and, I say that because as I’m listening to you, you’re, Sure. Yes, you understand business, but I don’t think the bottom line is the only thing that’s the relevant concept here. you know, we are looking at entrepreneurs with purpose, but in fact, you’re philosophical about how this is part of a life that you’re developing.
Andi Simon
00:10:07
And as you’re thinking that way, though, tell us a little bit more about the entrepreneur married to a serial entrepreneur. I coach entrepreneurs all the time, but I love entrepreneurial stories because some work and some don’t, and so on. We move on. But you began to see things, and I’m curious about what kind of businesses did you start and how do they stop and give us a little about what worked, what didn’t, and what you should pay attention to? Because I think our listeners are going to be interested.
India Gary-Williams
00:10:34
Oh, really? That’s I mean, that’s a really interesting one. I mean, the thing in addition to, my child and the things that the younger child and what I was dealing with that, the other thing that happened is, I was doing some research when I was still in the banking world with, some analysts about industries that grow through recession. And one of the things that that came up was beauty. And like, listen, I like the beauty stuff.
India Gary-Williams
00:11:00
That’s all great, but it’s not my passion necessarily. But I was looking at it from a, from an investment perspective. And, at the time when I was in the UK, I found that color cosmetics was the thing. And in Europe and the UK it was nail polish, which was like ten years behind the US in terms of those kind of color things. There weren’t at that time, like nail bars on every corner that wasn’t happening there. I mean, I saw that as a huge opportunity. So off I march, don’t ask me why to go to France to develop this nail polish. This is a personal thing I’m doing on the side. This is not work related. I’m like, I’m going to just kick off. I’m going to test.
Speaker 3
00:11:36
This, I love it.
Andi Simon
00:11:37
Forgive me, but that’s right up my alley. Love it, love.
Speaker 3
00:11:39
It, love it. So seriously, I don’t know.
India Gary-Williams
00:11:42
I do some research very lightly and go and find like these manufacturers in France, the contract manufacturer of this nail polish that I wanted and I wanted it to be, I was a bit I’ve always been quite a green person.
India Gary-Williams
00:11:53
I wanted it to be chemical free. That was going to be my big claim to fame very early. So I go and do this, produce this polish 84 colors. Don’t ask me why. and I come back and I think, oh, this is great. I have it now. What am I going to do with it? because I it suddenly started to dawn on me because I, it was not a planned thing, honestly. I was like testing it to see what would happen. and I and I come back and I’m like, what am I going to do with it? How am I going to distribute it? And the really quick story, because it gets quite long, is that I ended up, taking this nail polish, and opening my own nail shops, luxury nail bars. That was my plan. I was going to do ten of them around the around London primarily, but also in the UK, and distribute through my own shop. I got to shop number two and open Shop number two, and somebody from a store called Harvey Nichols, which is probably like a Saks Fifth Avenue here, came in and was like, this is great.
India Gary-Williams
00:12:43
Can I introduce you to the can I introduce you to our beauty person? I’m like, yeah, that’s great. So I meet this woman, I go on about my business. I’m thinking like, that was great practice to kind of understand, like what retailers want. They call me and they’re like, we want to carry it in all of our stores.
Speaker 3
00:12:57
Right?
India Gary-Williams
00:12:57
They buy them.
Speaker 3
00:12:58
They buy the product. Forgive me.
Andi Simon
00:12:59
I’m sorry to laugh, but opportunity.
India Gary-Williams
00:13:03
Opportunity. And then it started to gain kind of some notoriety. We started landing in some of the magazines because we were there, like we were in vogue. We were in we were in all of the kind of UK glamour, the same ones here. and then another brand called space and K, which is a big, kind of like an Ultra Sephora kind of place in the UK. There are a couple of them here as well. Picked it up too. So now we’re in like, I don’t know, 300 doors around the around the US, I’m sorry, around the UK, Europe, and the Middle East.
India Gary-Williams
00:13:32
It goes great. 2016 happens, Brexit happens. And we were at the point at which we had we really needed investors. We had to because we were outpacing ourselves. We were a small little thing. I’d left my job to come. My husband was like, you need to go run this thing. It’s our money. So I did and the kid thing, so it all kind of worked out. but we started out pacing our ability to fund the business, in a, in a in a timely manner, because in retail, it can take you can get 4-to-6-month invoices. And that is hard when you’re running a business.
Speaker 3
00:14:03
Yeah. It’s a revenue stream. You know, it’s a revenue stream.
India Gary-Williams
00:14:06
Absolutely. and so we were having conversations with investors and everybody pulled out because of Brexit, because they didn’t know what was going to happen, blah, blah, blah, which is what brought me back to the US. and, and over time, it just, it was too difficult to raise.
India Gary-Williams
00:14:19
This wasn’t our market. There were a whole bunch of things. I mean, so I had to take the difficult decision to shut it down. It was painful. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. But now I’m comfortable with that and I can shut them down quickly.
Speaker 3
00:14:29
That one was really, really hard.
India Gary-Williams
00:14:32
It was a really hard thing, and we ended up taking all the product and selling it to TJ Max, who sold it in their beauty, their thing. And we closed everything down and it was kind of like, what do I do now?
Speaker 3
00:14:42
Yeah.
India Gary-Williams
00:14:43
That’s and so my, my other businesses are really around my leadership journey and the work that I was doing in my corporate life. and, you know, I was made a managing director very early in the banking world. I was in my 30s, which is pretty early, and people always ask me how I did it and how I had a global, you know, I was in a global business at 15,000 people early in my life.
India Gary-Williams
00:15:04
And they were like, how did you do this across all these countries? And so I started thinking about how I could do leadership advisory work. And I kicked off that business, which is which has just grown from strength to strength. It is my natural space and place. the advisory work is my natural place and space. I am able to take my corporate work, the work that I do sitting on boards, and really give leaders really great perspective on the what and the how and that. So that’s evolved. And that was that one kicked off. I mean, I actually was doing some of that at the same time as I was doing the, the beauty business. but I kind of just focused on that. And it grew. And the learning management platform grew out of the back of that. because people wanted more of me and I couldn’t give more of me. So we were like, let’s build the capabilities so that we can scale it and give people whatever they want. They don’t. I don’t have to be there.
India Gary-Williams
00:15:53
It can be self-paced. We can take that out of the equation. So we did that, accredited all the things. and you know, then I have my fourth venture, which is act three, which you heard about, which is about women in midlife. I do I just have this broad range of things which are all interconnected. but that really have brought me to where I am.
Andi Simon
00:16:14
Well, that raises the question of WBC and India. Gary Martin, at this point, in all of the things that you’ve done, there’s something here that clearly tickled you, something that opened a door for you. You truly believe in a life journey. And, your story, whether it’s the nail polish or it’s a leadership one, brings a warmth to my heart because, you know, we’re on a journey and we have value. And how do we use it so others can benefit by it? And we are really very excited at WBC that you are now the chair. Now tell us about, you know, why us? Why now? Why here and what’s next for us and for you? Does that make sense?
India Gary-Williams
00:16:57
Oh it does, it does.
India Gary-Williams
00:16:59
so I’ll be really, really, really honest. this came to me during the election time. So, you know, I was, I, I think I started having the conversation with WBC back in maybe August or September of 2024, and I was formally appointed in March. So that gives you like some perspective around the timing of it all. and I was really I had some great trepidation as I was thinking about it, because I thought to myself, what is it to be the chair of an organization that convenes, you know, 80 plus women’s organizations? You know, a load of sponsors and donors, a load of champions. What is that going to mean in this moment? We didn’t know what it was going to be. We had no idea how things were going to shape out or what the implications were going to be. and I was so actually, it was a really it took me a minute to get my head around whether or not this is something I wanted to do, because it is a huge responsibility in this moment.
India Gary-Williams
00:17:59
And WBC, I believe, has a huge responsibility in this moment to not only be a convener, but to be a beacon for women in business and to, ensure that we understand all of the things that are coming and that we convene people to be able to talk about it and come to common solutions around how we’ll walk through it. and that again, as I was reflecting on what that would require, as the person kind of sitting as the chair of this, I’m really blessed by an amazing board, and an amazing CEO. And so like, I that was never a worry for me because I was kind of like, you know, when I looked at the people, I was like, I’m going to be in the fight. These are the people I want to be in the fight with. And when I say fight, I say that gently, because I don’t, I, I don’t believe in pushing the boulder uphill. Right. I think that that we do this with ease because it’s who we are.
India Gary-Williams
00:18:48
And it’s a, it’s the way that we operate. but I but I will say that I think WBC has a tremendous opportunity in this moment. and that, you know, never will the work that we do be doom and gloom because this is what we were born. We’ve been doing this forever. And as you kind of rightfully pointed out earlier, this is a journey. And, you know, things aren’t actually that much different, to be fair. I mean, there are there and when I say that I am not minimizing the loss of income for people, loss of jobs, the trauma that sometimes being shaken, can create. So I’m not minimizing that at all. But what I am saying is that for women and underrepresented groups, it’s not a lot different. it’s just much more up to us and kind of in your face. You know, it’s that it’s that thing. And so we carry on and we do what we have to do. And we recognize that, you know, women are 51% of the population.
India Gary-Williams
00:19:44
we are a significant portion of the workforce. Without us, we fall apart. And so our role is to ensure that, that we’re a voice in remembering that and that we bring people to the floor to have those conversations.
Andi Simon
00:19:57
I’m excited. I was speaking at a group in Chicago at the beginning of Women’s History Month. There were 80 women in there, and we were talking about how to lead without limits and how to begin to see ourselves, in a different fashion, one that we probably have been around. because, I mean, I got into banking by chance, and I became an executive in two banks. I was EVP of one, and I was the only or the first in that C-suite. And I remember not only being an anthropologist there, which was weird, but also not really looking left and right, not really knowing who I belonged with. and that was many years ago. I won’t date myself, but like you, it’s been a lifetime of trying to figure out how do we create a different visual and platform for men and women to build and build better together? And I do think that is part of my purpose and passion.
Andi Simon
00:20:56
Because you can’t do without guys, and guys can’t do without women. They women are all over. Half the graduates of colleges, half the masters, half the doctorates, half the doctors, half the dentists, 65% of the accountants. Really? I mean, let’s take a look at the world the way it is. And oh, by the way, we’re also raising the kids, taking care of our parents, and running the house and buying 80% of the food and all the rest. So what am I missing? The couple of things, and I’m so glad you mentioned the inspiration that comes out of WBC, because I too am inspired by it and by the folks who are associated. The vision that I know Eddie had at the beginning was, how do we collaborate? Right. You know, there’s more that can be done together than by any one of us alone. And that’s not always that easy, because the word collaboration has so many different actions to it. You know, it’s not just meaning.
Andi Simon
00:21:49
It’s how do I do this and why and how do we all benefit in some fashion? Do you have some perspective? Perhaps you are discovering or sharing?
Speaker 3
00:21:58
No.
India Gary-Williams
00:21:58
I mean, I think for sure, I think that the key to collaboration, is that you still get to have what’s important to you. Like, like you still you don’t have to change your essential mission to collaborate with others. The key is what are the things that unite us, identifying the things that unite us and going on those things and respecting that there will be there will be other things that we have as missions or passions in our respective places and spaces that are just fine. And they should be. Absolutely. So collaboration is kind of that thing, that identity that kind of unites us, but also or things that unite us. But also, you know, that I can do my thing and still amplify yours.
Speaker 3
00:22:38
Yes.
India Gary-Williams
00:22:38
Right. There’s not there’s not and it’s not a competition at all by any stretch. Like I can only do the thing I can uniquely do, and you can do the thing you uniquely do.
India Gary-Williams
00:22:47
You know, there’s never a competition in my mind, when it comes to how it full stop when it comes to how we do this stuff together. Faster, together, better together. Eddie talks about that all the time, and she’s absolutely right. You know, we have to lift and uphold, a core set of values around what it means to do all the things that you said, that you talked about, that you know, that women bring and do. but also remember that we’re not alone in this, and B, that if we do this together, we will go far faster, far more. I mean, far faster and way, way, way better than we could ever do alone. And I think if we can kind of keep that at the center, then you kind of have it.
Andi Simon
00:23:31
Well, you know, the other thing I mean, I’ve been working with different industries over my 23 years in business, and I’m watching the transformation of relationships in those areas. Learning to listen and hear.
Andi Simon
00:23:45
Learning to begin to lead with different styles, to stop thinking about the other as an adversary as opposed to, you know, a common collaborative advocate. And I’m watching the cultures in these companies begin to see, the differences as opportunities. And, and I don’t think we need programs. I do think we; you know, culture doesn’t come programmatically by the arts. It comes from experiential and trust and a sense that what I say and mean, you understand, and we can work better together because we are rising at the event. At the beginning of March, I watched women sharing with each other, in ways that were exciting. They all want to know what? What do you need? I remember hearing. What do you need? And how can I help? And it wasn’t about me. And I was about us. And those are core values and behaviors that lift everybody. And it’s so exciting to watch. So, you know, I’m listening to our interview and I’m saying to myself, how far can I take India? How many months can we be together to share this? Because the inspiration is shareable and so and I don’t even want to talk about the obstacles because they are just here for us to be challenged by.
Andi Simon
00:25:05
Right.
India Gary-Williams
00:25:06
Right. I mean, like, this is what I say. I think you hit on a really interesting point around culture, particularly, and the culture that you create. And, and here’s the thing. I think that you’re absolutely right that people are starting to think about what that looks like and how it happens, but people will behave as the container creates. So if you want good behavior, create a container that provide that helps, you know, facilitate good behavior, right. You know, and that that is such an important part of this message is people understanding the container in which they’re operating and stop trying to change people and fix the container, like fix the container, not people. People will behave as you create an environment for them to. But if you don’t fix the container, you can chase and do whatever you want with people all day long. Nothing will shift. It’ll keep going back. It’s kind of like the I give people an example of you knows, you’re in a let’s say you’re in a company and people come and go, but the behaviors stay the same.
India Gary-Williams
00:26:00
It’s because of the culture. It’s the container that we’re holding. So if you want to shift the way people operate, shift the container. And I will also say that one of the things that as I’ve kind of studied over the past, let’s call it 25 or 30 years, I would say 30 years ago when I started in the world of work for 35 years ago, should I be saying that 35 years ago, when I started.
Speaker 3
00:26:22
In the world, I’m with you.
India Gary-Williams
00:26:24
You know, when I when I started in the world of work, a lot of the work was about relationships, and it’s become very transactional. And I think a part of that is the speed at which people are moving the, you know, on demand. Everything in the palm of my hand answers to everything. And there are a couple of things about that. One is that, frankly, just because you can Google it doesn’t mean you can do it. There’s something to be said for experience. And the second thing is, you know, we have to we have to build.
India Gary-Williams
00:26:53
We have to get back to relationships and seeing people for who they are and their value, and not what they can just give me. Yes, that is the ultimate. That is that is the base of collaboration.
Andi Simon
00:27:04
Yes, it is. I have a friend, Andy Kramer. and she wrote a book. It’s not you. It’s the workplace. And, and in it, she really does talk about the fact that that container that you’re describing, sets the stage. You’re sorry. It’s a stage, for you to perform. And. And if the play isn’t the one you want to perform in, you got to change it. You know, I always tell people it’s like you played hamlet all this time, but you don’t want to play that anymore. So here’s Macbeth. Can you learn the script and change the. The relationships and metaphors often work better than dictating it. I just think about it. You know, you play different roles, just change the conversation and, and they say, well, how do you do that? I said, you rehearse as if you were on stage.
India Gary-Williams
00:27:51
My theater, my theater background helps me with that.
Andi Simon
00:27:54
Mine, too. but now we are reaching a point in our conversation where it’s time to tell the folks 2 or 3 things that you don’t want them to forget, because I often think they remember the end, even more importantly than the beginning. I and I want to make sure we emphasize that wonderful. May 1st. May 22nd. May 21st 22nd Conference on Capital. But you know a couple of things you don’t want them to forget.
India Gary-Williams
00:28:20
I don’t want them to forget that they’re that you’re not alone. Like you’re just not alone in this. And to, you know, find your tribe. We exist. This comes to women’s business collaborative. Women business collaborative. We exist. Your tribe exists. So I think the first one is remembering that. That you’re not alone. the second one is that, you know, opportunity is everywhere. it’s all a matter of perspective and that even if it feels difficult and it’s hard to put one foot in front of the other, every storm runs out of rain.
India Gary-Williams
00:28:53
You know, the sun will shine and follow the sun. That’s my second thing. And the last thing I will say, is that we have to do this better, faster, and together. Like, none of what we need to achieve societally, environmentally, even in our workplaces, can we do alone? that it is ultimately about building community and recognizing the value in people, and that you don’t have to agree with somebody to understand their value. You don’t have to like them to understand their value, but understand that every person has a value and to focus on the relationships as opposed to the transactional?
Andi Simon
00:29:29
Yes. You know, we can go further, faster together. Should be everybody’s tagline. You know, it creates a brand of action where it’s not about me, it’s about we. It’s not about eyes. It’s about us. And all of a sudden, it changes the dynamics and our perspective of what’s important and how to do it. Would you like to share about the capital summit that’s coming? May 21st and 22nd.
Andi Simon
00:29:55
You do the pitch I started. Perhaps you want to end it.
India Gary-Williams
00:29:58
I would just say, the Women’s Capital Summit is May 21st and 22nd in New York City. Please be there. Like, as a founder, I’m going there to see all the all the funders. So, you know, founders and funders, please come out. I mean, this is this is a real moment for us. And, you know, we think about how we fund women owned businesses. This is a place to do it, to fund and for founders to come and meet folks who can help you along that journey. And I think most importantly, to find your tribe and find your community because we are here.
Andi Simon
00:30:30
I think that’s just beautiful and I couldn’t tell. It’s just a wonderful time. I keep thinking about how to blow the brand out and make it the place that people line up to belong to. It’s not, you know, it’s young and it needs to just get that that that emphasis. I’m so delighted that you’re now the chair.
Andi Simon
00:30:49
I love Eddie Frazier. She’s built.
Speaker 3
00:30:51
Such.
India Gary-Williams
00:30:51
She’s, my girl. She’s she is my. She is my guiding star and guiding light in this.
Andi Simon
00:30:56
She’s our North star. And I know for her, on that note, I’m going to tell everybody who comes and listens or watches. I can’t thank you enough for being part of our tribe. And this podcast is here to get you off the brink. We call it on the brink because so many people come to us and say, what do I do? You have to see, feel, and think in new ways. Listen carefully to what India has been talking about, particularly as you think about your own business, whether it’s inside a corporation or it’s an entrepreneurial venture, you know you have an opportunity to wee it and see how much further we go together and faster, and you’ll be amazed at the wonderful value of diverse ideas and energies. If you bring them together like a good team, you can really win. And so my books are all available on Amazon, just like on Andy Simon with an AI and Women Mean Business over 500 insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success was written with Ed Fraser, and it is about all of those wonderful 102 women who want you to soar.
Andi Simon
00:31:56
And I do as well. So my tag is from observation to innovation. Stick into that. That observation part India talked about she’s intuitive. She sees things, she listens. And next thing you know, she’s on a whole new male venture and you begin to make. I don’t know. All I know is that it’s a wonderful opportunity to listen in and enjoy and share. And thanks so much. Bye now. Have a great day, India. Thanks again for coming.
India Gary-Williams
00:32:23
Thank you for having me.
