405: How Denielle Finkelstein and Thyme Sullivan Are Revolutionizing Period Care

In this episode of On the Brink with Andi Simon, we explore the groundbreaking work of Denielle Finkelstein and Thyme Sullivan, the dynamic co-founders of Unicorn. Unicorn is a company with purpose, boldly revolutionized period care. Unicorn isn’t just a business. It’s a movement dedicated to dismantling outdated norms and offering a fresh, empathetic approach to menstruation. Through their innovative dispensers, now found in restroom stalls across the country, they are taking significant strides towards ending period poverty and promoting dignity for all.

The Birth of Unicorn: A Vision Rooted in Empathy and Innovation

Denielle and Thyme’s journey began in the high-stakes world of corporate America, where they both enjoyed successful careers. However, as they climbed the corporate ladder, they found themselves searching for deeper meaning in their work. They realized their true passion lay in addressing a critical yet often overlooked issue: the lack of accessible, high-quality period care products.

With a blend of entrepreneurial spirit, innovative thinking, and a deep sense of empathy, Denielle and Thyme co-founded Unicorn. Their mission was clear: to create a line of better, organic period products that were easily accessible to everyone. But they didn’t stop at just offering superior products—they wanted to revolutionize the entire period care experience.

Challenging the Status Quo: From Outdated Machines to Innovative Dispensers

One of the key innovations Unicorn introduced was replacing outdated period product machines with its own low-cost, low-profile dispensers. These dispensers are strategically placed in every restroom stall, ensuring that women have immediate access to the products they need right when they need them. This change might seem simple, but it represents a significant shift in how period care is approached and delivered.

Denielle and Thyme’s dispensers are not just about convenience; they are a powerful statement against period poverty. By making period products more accessible, they challenge the notion that dignity is a luxury rather than a basic right. This is particularly evident in their partnership with JPMorgan Chase & Co., the first major bank to adopt Unicorn’s dispensers. This collaboration underscores the impact and potential of Unicorn’s vision, demonstrating that large institutions can and should play a role in promoting equity and dignity.

More Than Just Products: Unicorn as a Movement

Unicorn’s journey is about more than just selling products—it’s about sparking a conversation and inspiring change. As Denielle and Thyme have shared their story on platforms like ChedHER TV and the Women on the Move podcast, they have emphasized that Unicorn is a movement aimed at disrupting norms and prompting dialogue around menstruation and period care.

The pair are passionate about shifting the narrative around periods from one of shame and secrecy to one of empowerment and pride. They believe that by normalizing discussions about menstruation and ensuring that high-quality period products are readily available, they can help break down the stigma that often surrounds this natural biological process.

Building a Sustainable Future

Sustainability is another cornerstone of Unicorn’s mission. Denielle and Thyme are committed to ensuring that their products not only serve the immediate needs of women but also contribute to a healthier planet. Their organic period products are thoughtfully designed to minimize environmental impact, reflecting their broader commitment to creating a better, more sustainable future.

The Power of Partnership

The success of Unicorn can be attributed in part to the powerful partnership between Denielle and Thyme. Their shared vision and complementary skills and experiences have allowed them to build an innovative and impactful company. Together, they are proving that business can be a force for good and that it is possible to be both profitable and purposeful.

Join the Movement

As Denielle says, “At Unicorn, we’re not just envisioning a brighter future—we’re crafting it, one restroom stall at a time.” Thyme’s message echoes this sentiment: “We don’t just dream of a better future—we’re actively building it.” They invite listeners to join them in their mission to ensure that dignity is not optional but the norm everywhere and always.

In a world where period poverty remains a pressing issue, Unicorn is making a tangible difference. Denielle and Thyme’s story is a testament to the power of innovation, empathy, and unwavering commitment to equity. As they continue to expand Unicorn’s reach, they are not just changing how period care is delivered—they are changing how the world thinks about periods.

Tune in to hear more about how Unicorn is setting a new standard in period care and learn how you can join this important movement.

To watch our podcast with Denielle Finkelstein and Thyme Sullivan, click here Danielle Finkelstein and Thyme Sullivan Are Revolutionizing Period Care:

To learn more about Unicorn and Danielle Finkelstein and Thyme Sullivan:

Denielle Finkelstein;’s Profile: linkedin.com/in/denielle-finkelstein-5637baa

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Read the transcript of our podcast below: 

Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink with Andi Simon. Thank you for joining us today. I’m And Simon and as you know, I’m your host and your guide. My job is to get you off the brink. What I want to do is help you see, feel, and think in new ways. So you, like an anthropologist, might begin to observe things with a fresh lens. And out of it may come moments where your brain goes swish and you see something new and want to transform yourself personally or professionally, or your company or others around you. But the only way you can do that is that you have to fight your brain because your brain hates change. But now I have some wonderful women with me who are going to share with you, their journey. And their journey is a beautiful one, from corporate to entrepreneurs to seeing things in a way that can transform women for women in a very innovative fashion. And as they tell you the story, you’re going to find here and there, and you’re going to go, oh, it’s not a straight line, but as long as you have a bit of a destination and you can see a future where things are really better, you’re going to stick to it and really help women and men begin to transform the lives that we’re living.  They’re shaking their heads and they’re enjoying themselves. Let me tell you who they are. First, I have Denielle Finkelstein. She’s a dynamic co-founder of a company called Unicorn. It wasn’t always that name, but you’ll hear about the transformation. She’s deeply committed to bringing transformational change to the world of period care. Women menstruate. And I remember doing work in Africa when the girls had nothing to do when they were menstruating. They couldn’t go to school; they couldn’t leave the house. It was really quite awful as a woman maturing not knowing how to handle this. This is part of our story today. So using a blend of entrepreneurship, innovation, and empathy, they’re challenging conventions and redefining standards with a line of better organic products. But it’s more than a product. As we were talking before, it’s not just about success or the products, it’s about significance and transformation and time. Sullivan is her cousin and her partner. And I know there’s a third C in there, but she’s a guiding force behind the Unicorn. She’s spearheading a revolution in period care as well.

 I think the most interesting part is how they’re disrupting outdated paradigms with thoughtful design sustainability practices, and an unwavering commitment to dignity and equity. I could read the rest of their bios, but I think it’s going to be more interesting listening to them tell you about themselves and in doing so, it’s about them personally, but also professionally. And for you, my listeners out there, it’s about you. Remember, as you hear a story, your own story changes and we live the story in our mind’s eye. And now I want you to see a new story that’s going to help you transform. Denielle. Thyme. Thank you for being with me. please. Who would like to start?

Thyme Sullivan: Well, Andi, we are so happy to be here. We’ve been binging your podcast and you’ve had some amazing guests. and the title is just so perfect because we were, quite frankly, on the brink when we started this company. And it resonates in so many ways. So listen to our episode, all the episodes. There’s quite a community that you’ve built here, and you’ve had some incredible experiences to share. And I think that’s what this is all about. So the three C’s: Denielle and I are cousins. We are co-founders and we are co-CEOs. So we are the Coca-Cola’s. And it’s really an incredible story in that we hadn’t seen each other in 30 years. We both lost our dads when they were young, and the families kind of went in different ways. Other sides of the family went in different directions, and her even coming back into my life was such an incredible, perfect timing of the universe. We were both on the brink. We had both left our corporate jobs at the height of our careers. We were the breadwinners in our families. Our husbands thought we were crazy, but it was. We grew up in a time when there wasn’t entrepreneurship and that you just worked really, really hard and you followed the rules, and you stayed in line, and you grind it out and do whatever you have to do to get to the top of your career. But we both found ourselves at the same place, incredibly unfulfilled, and made a choice to see what was behind door number three. And I think that we always knew we could go back if things didn’t work out, but holy moly, we would never go back. We are six years in, and this has been such an incredible journey that truly started because my daughter was coming of age, and I worked for Coca-Cola and Nestlé and Pepsi for 27 years, and I was a total grocery geek. My first job was driving a Frito truck. and I remember looking at everything in the supermarket, from ketchup to dog food to shampoo, and had all the ingredients and feminine care said may contain, and there was just no transparency. And the products were kind of never innovated. And when my young daughter at the time came to me and asked for, you know, organic lip gloss, I was like, geez, there’s got to be better products and better access to women. And this is something that makes such a difference. You mentioned, you know, that you worked with girls in Africa. It changes the trajectory of girls’ lives just having access to products. And, you know, Denielle and I have come together sharing this commitment to advocating for women. We’ll get through how it’s changed and how we’ve had to go in several different directions to get where we are today. But over the past six years, it’s been an incredible journey to meet people like you along the way, and Edie Frazier and all these incredible women that mean business and that make a difference and that hopefully are inspiring other women to take a chance on themselves and go for it.

Andi Simon: I met Edie Frazier, a co-author on my third book, after she reviewed my second book, and I became involved in the Women Business Collaborative. And we all have a dedication to Edie that goes beyond anything tactical and practical. I love her, and when she talks about companies of purpose, it’s with a heart that says, you got to meet these women.  They are doing something transformative. And for our listeners or our viewers, listen carefully because it isn’t another product. It isn’t even a little better product. It’s a whole new way of thinking about something and seeing it.

Denielle Finkelstein:  Stemming off of that, I think when we think about where the world’s we came from, and that’s really what stemmed the two of us. You know, I was 22 years in fashion, and when I had this opportunity to reach out to this cousin who I had not seen in 30 years, first of all I thought, what am I doing? What was I doing? I walked out at the height of my career, like I walked out of my career. I walked in and handed my papers in and I was in a corner office C-suite. So my 22-year-old self was like, what are you doing? Like you worked so hard to get here from a super humble beginning and worked to get to that office.  And I think there are so many things that we have in our careers, and I love the conversation that we’re having, because you do come to this point in that brink moment. And I do think about where I was at that point. And I had almost lost my level of curiosity. I wasn’t learning anymore, and I was stagnant. I think the big piece is when I sat down and I reached out to them when we were actually over lunch and she jokingly, at the end of lunch, said, how funny would it be if we went into business together? I was like, you’re crazy. I’m like, I haven’t seen, like I’ve worked nonstop for like three years, like never saw my children. But when I sat back and really thought about what this was, I knew that there was something deeper in me that what I wanted to do and we talked about companies of purpose, like there was more purpose that I had in my career. There was more impact I wanted to have in my career and getting this opportunity with Thyme. When we look back six years and still like when she is my favorite human in the entire world outside of my direct family and I get the opportunity to do this one with her. But every day what fuels us is that this is an opportunity. We’re doing this for our daughters to create a better environment for the future for them, but also for them to see that we’ve got badass moms, and this is what you can actually do. You can take those risks. You can, you can really. This was probably the bravest and most courageous thing both of us have done to really step out and do this. coming after such very, very successful part ones of our career and making this flip. It’s those pivotal moments that you learn from again. But I would say that probably the most rewarding part for both of us is that every day we are learning something new. Every day we get curious and also the other part, the beauty of all of this is just as you said, it’s like it’s this network of people around us. One of the phrases, we just did a panel assignment, I spoke to a company last week, and one of the big phrases that came back there like this was everyone’s favorite phrase, but it’s something I’ve been carrying for years from my old boss: your network is your net worth.  And when we were in our old worlds, our networks were so they were very sheltered in a sense, because we were always in fashion. She was always in CPG. So you were in the same circle of folks. This world of entrepreneurship and what we are doing has opened us up to stuff that we never in our wildest minds would have ever thought that we would get the opportunity of being in rooms with people we’re like, why are we here? And we’re like we actually now remind ourselves we belong here. We’re here for a reason. And that’s a really powerful moment in your career. And like where we’re sitting at this stage now, six years in, to what we’re doing and yeah, we’re building something really amazing. But there’s the other side too, of just being surrounded by these phenomenal humans that we never would have had had exposure to before in our careers.

Andi Simon: I love what you’re saying because it’s an expression of vulnerability that while the word is out there, the actual watching it happen is so unfamiliar to most people. You’re describing uncertainty, not knowing. And I was an executive vice president of a bank. I remember that corner office. I never could go back in there. But the freedom of being out requires a different kind of structure, vulnerability, difference, confidence, and an ability to see what’s possible. Can you tell us about what was possible? How did you guys come to period care? It didn’t just drop in your lap, literally. I have a hunch something else happened to trigger this as a pathway. Because it could have been anything, right?

Thyme Sullivan: Absolutely. And I will start with saying, what you talk about is making this change is it takes a great deal of humility because face it, when you get in that corner office, you’ve got a bit of ego that you’re carrying with you. So to leave that all behind and start something completely new and deal with the tremendous amount of rejection that comes from starting a company. Everything from fundraising to sourcing to everything you can imagine. It’s been an incredible learning experience and made us so much stronger. And period care in particular has made it challenging. So picture us, we’re established women aka older women older that would try to go out and raise venture capital with all of our experience and network that we had. Older women trying to raise capital to make period products.

Andi Simon: Forgive me for laughing, but it is cute.

Thyme Sullivan: It was not at the time.  Back to our hippie roots, we will call it. We call it the Summer of Unlove. We met with probably 50 venture capitalists, and we didn’t raise a dime. It was not people that looked like us that understood what we were doing, that were tied to our mission, and period care was really important. You know, there’s so many things. There was a lack of transparency. There was the period poverty. That’s the stat today is 1 in 4 girls misses work or school because she doesn’t have access to period care. It’s so amazing to see people speaking out so much more about it now. But it was a very taboo topic. It was a medical device that, ironically, had no ingredient transparency and really access. You know, if you look at our phone camera rolls, it’s so sad. It’s all pictures of bathrooms and broken tampon machines because everywhere we went, there’s not one woman that hasn’t been caught off guard, and there’s not one woman that hasn’t experienced what can happen when you don’t have any period products and you get your period. So it was really identifying the problem, wasn’t it? Not just making a better product, it’s making a product available where women actually need it. And, you know, one of the entrepreneurs, I love this woman, Jamie Kern Lima, always says, you’re not crazy. You’re first. So our big problem that we’re solving is period products should just be wherever there’s toilet paper. It should just be right next to it. You shouldn’t have to go to the common area, shouldn’t be in a basket that gets all soggy and sad. The metal machines are always broken, or coin opt or jammed or empty. We realize that the reason period products aren’t extra toilet papers is we just never asked for them. And my husband jokes. but it’s not funny that if guys had their periods, it would be right next to the toilet paper 50 years ago.

Andi Simon: So pause for a second because he’s right. Yeah. I mean, and I don’t want to belabor the point, but if it was a problem for them, this wouldn’t have been a problem for us. And consequently, it’s sort of, so I’ll go back and let you share. So once you came up with that, that this was really a problem to be solved and a big blue ocean, I’m a blue ocean strategist. There was nobody even paying attention.

Thyme Sullivan: Somebody said to us, once you’re solving a problem that people didn’t know was a problem, and once we got our mind wrapped around it that, I tell everyone that there was a I mean, in our lifetime, we remember when Uber came out. I was like, I’m not getting in somebody else’s car. That’s insane. And now I can’t get in a taxicab and, you know, Netflix and Airbnb, like staying at somebody else’s house, like, no, thank you. Now, it’s a very common thing. My kids get really upset if there’s not Wi-Fi wherever we go. There are so many things that you thought sounded insane. I tell Denielle my first car, my first cell phone. They said, do you want to install it in your car, or do you want the bag phone to take with you? I’m like, I’ve never taken it with me. So I was a visionary from way back. There was no reason that period care can’t be right next to me. And I’ll let Denielle show she’s got an incredible story about how.

Denielle Finkelstein:  Two things. I think two things to just stem on what time is talking about because we talk about so much of what your conversation is about.  These risks and brink and pivot. And we were a successful retail business. So we’re six years old. So we had almost three and a half years of successful retail. So we were really pretty premium products on the shelf. We had a different name at that time. We were Atop the Organic Project, and we rebranded.

And during that time, we were in thousands and thousands of retailers and that was a lot of pride. Like, here we are. We got ourselves there. Like from your Wegmans to your Sprouts to even Erewhon, which is literally the grocery store of the stars and also Target as well. So there were all of these things, and we made a conscious decision because at the heart of what our mission has been since day one was always advocating in advance and advocating for women and advancing women in society. And we recognized that was never going to happen by selling a product on the shelf. And so when this really started to unearth itself and say, okay, to your point, Blue Ocean, which I love, like I love Blue Ocean and what it is, we started to see it like this. The green shoots just kept coming and coming and we’re like there’s something so much bigger here, but we’re going to have to take a significant risk in our business. And we had investors. And so there was a time period like six months, like one of our investors was not happy with us. They’re like, we invested in you too, because of your retail experience and where you came from. And we said, listen, like we need to trust us. First of all, we were both seasoned executives. So we have weathered storms. You’ve gone through the good and bad. And so that whole process was also like there were moments like we were down to our knees. Like we would be crying and being like, what are we doing? Why did we do this? But we knew again, we had to keep reminding ourselves, go back to the mission. What are we out to do? And now that we see it and we see the impact of what this is by getting period products into every single bathroom stall, that’s where the change is going to happen. That’s where equity happens. That’s where you think about these young students that are in school. The change for them of removing that barrier for education is massive. So one of our breakthrough moments, this was two years ago we had the opportunity to go to a very small cocktail party up in Boston that Jamie Dimon was hosting because he was doing these bus tours in regions so he can learn more about the branches and get really direct feedback. And so small one, I think there were 30 or 40 founders, we were two of those of those founders. And he’s doing his big old speech, and there’s about 100 people there. And he finishes his speech and I grab Thyme by the arm. I was like, let’s go. We got one shot. And that’s probably also because where we are sitting in our lives now, our 30-year-old selves would never have done this. Here we are. We’ve made this big decision like we’re going to go talk to him. And so we beeline up to him and we’re like, pushing around. I’m like, let’s go, let’s go. People are waiting in line to get him, and we get up in front and thank him for being there. And say we’ve been banking with you and just said, Jamie, we’re going to ask a really strange question. Do you carry toilet paper around with you? And she looks at me and she’s like wait, what? I know what she did. I said, I know it’s a really strange question, but what you need to hear and what you talk about so much is that you care about your female employees. You care so much about what’s happening in their wellness and their health and all of those things and equity you talk about all the time. Your branch employees, majority of them are women and majority of them are minorities. They’re leaving the branches and they’re carrying this mental load. And he almost stopped me like mid-sentence. And he goes, I get it. He goes, I’ve got a wife, I’ve got daughters, and I’ve got granddaughters. So it was a couple more minutes and that was it. And he is like done. And I had no idea at this point we’re like, all right we’re getting kicked out of JP Morgan Chase. And two days later, our phone was like, lit up and one of the heads of communications who had met that day at that cocktail party, she just reached out and she said, hey, listen, you guys made the list. And we’re like, what does that mean? And she said, you make Jamie’s list, things move fast. So are you ready? We’re like, yeah, we’re ready. And it just catapulted us into one into the JPMorgan Chase family, which we have found an enormous benefit to. Like, really, they have been cheerleaders, especially for women businesses and for small businesses and put us in rooms. What we were just talking about with people that we never thought we’d ever have opportunities to be in.  It has opened so many doors for us that by just taking that chance and taking that risk by going up to him, we are already banking with them. But the beauty is, it is time. And I was at another event with the JPMorgan Chase and the head of all of commercial banking time got to sit next to her. And she’s like, so which one of you asked Jamie if he carries toilet paper? She was just so you know, it is like the people know about this. It’s taking those moments like, it’s like the Eminem song, like you got one shot. Like we have one shot, and we have worked so hard to get where we are today to be able to tell that story also, again, to this next generation of women who are coming like they are such powerhouses. We get to do one thing, but they’re going to do so much more. But to just showcase and say, hey, this is what you have to do.

Andi Simon:  Well, it’s memorable, it’s also bold and brave and courageous and, to your point, you’re not a 30-year-old. You’ve got enough credibility in yourself and others that it’s worth a shot. But now the question is, you got Jamie Dimon’s attention. What do you tell the listeners who may not be familiar? What exactly did that let you do? Because it went from a product on shelf in stores to a whole new access, and you have to help us understand what that meant, because it wasn’t another, a little cheaper. It was a whole different. And it wasn’t just a sustainability product, it was accessible to it. Who wants to take on the question?

Thyme Sullivan: I’m good. And so what happened from that phone call is that he said within two weeks, we need to pilot this in New England. And that actually happened. Every single branch in New England piloted putting period products in every branch, every bathroom right next to the toilet paper. Then after that pilot, now we have moved on and we’re rolling out across the entire country. And it was a game changer in so many ways because when you get a company like that, it’s how the momentum starts, and we work. It’s very unglamorous. We go to facility management, trade shows and work with facility managers and building managers and janitorial services. But those are the people that are making the decisions, and that’s where we’re making an incredible difference. And now we’re in thousands of bathroom stalls across the country with fortune 500 companies, and it continues to roll. And I would say it’s similar to JPMorgan Chase. We met Shelley Zalis, and she started the Female Quotient and the Equity Lounges. And I think the same way that it caught on in that way, she brought men into the conversation. And it’s truly about how you bring equity into the workplace and that we’re going to do it in our lifetimes.  And this is a really simple way to do it. I think it’s gaining momentum. And we always say that now it’s like we have a brand Unicorn, but this is truly a movement about how this is a very simple way to bring equity to women.

Andi Simon: Yeah, well, it’s just the word simple, really. You should pull out of there because it’s been a pretty complicated, simple way to bring it to market in ways that, I don’t think he really understood exactly what you were going to do. And you just knew that he was okay to do it. It’s sort of interesting and fun to watch him have a moment with you, please. Denielle, you were going to say something.

Denielle Finkelstein: I was just going to say that was actually the word. That was we spent probably 2 to 3 months doing this again as time choked like our photos are literally our phone reels are all bathrooms. And they have been for years. Because what we wanted to make sure was that there was a simplicity for us as an end user, as a woman, but also the most important advocate we had to have was the janitorial staff.

Andi Simon: Yes.

Denielle Finkelstein:  And get them to make the simplicity of it for them because they’re the ones that are there every day servicing the toilet paper, the hand soap, the paper towels. And so it was getting out there and talking with them and really spending time and understanding what their pain points were. Their pain points were those metal machines that are in the common area because they’re terrible to service. They’re always broken. they don’t care as much about the quality of the product. Women, we care about the quality of product quality that they are terrible. But installing the actual machine is extremely difficult. They’re cutting. You need multiple people to do it. And so ours is so simple, so lightweight, so low profile but so high impact. and it goes right above the toilet paper.  And that was really the goal when we really set out as a team. And I love this whole Blue Ocean concept because that’s what we did. How do we do this and think about this in the biggest way, but in the simplest way so that when it does come to adoption, it’s a very simple piece, but it’s also repeatable and really thinking about that whole, I mean, the whole flywheel concept of like, how do you make sure that this just keeps going around and you get that momentum there? That’s by doing it in the simplicity of it. So you get the end user, us as women being the advocate to be like, now we actually hear from women, they’re like, I’m pissed when it’s not in another bathroom because they love having it there. Knowing that you have the security of it there.  It changes the trajectory of your day. Simplicity was critical when we designed this.

Andi Simon: For our listeners and the audio, I urge you to go to the Unicorn website. Just take a look at all of the videos showing you a very simple plastic on top of the toilet paper with period care product in it. That’s easy. Now. Is there a charge for it or is it free?

Denielle Finkelstein:  It’s free.

Andi Simon: Yes.

Denielle Finkelstein:  So it’s free. And so it’s the organizations that they’re there. They’re providing it for their employees because they’re thinking about the wellness of their employees. They’re thinking about the equity of their employees.  And we’ve actually seen that there is a direct correlation when an employee knows that their organization is thinking about their health and their wellness, it directly impacts their engagement, their loyalty, their productivity. And so this is one of those just simple. There’s a lot of other things, but this is one of those things that is so simple, thinking about somebody’s basic needs that we’re hearing over and over again, like, you hear me, you actually see me. I am valuable to your organization. And so you’re starting to see that impact, which has been pretty, pretty, pretty incredible to actually watch.

Andi Simon: What’s equally incredible Thyme. Please go ahead. You had a thought.

Thyme Sullivan:  Fun fact Unicorn.com was not available in any way. So our website is actually everystall.com. And a friend of ours and one of our advisors suggested it because the idea is every stall. So I don’t want people to go look for Unicorn and then be like, where are these ladies? But yeah, that was a tough domain to get.

Andi Simon:  Well. And I do apologize for misspeaking, but I do think the website everystall.com is well worth a visit because it concretizes what we’re talking about in a way that I can imagine. But until I saw it, I couldn’t imagine thinking about what they put on top of the toilet paper. And how it actually is simple, but it’s also quite beautiful. And I think that beauty for women in particular is important.  It’s not a piece of metal and it’s not hidden behind. It’s open and easy to access. Why was this transformative? You give some perspective.

Thyme Sullivan:  On the challenges?

Andi Simon: Yes, please.

Thyme Sullivan:  There were so many.  It was very difficult to raise capital, first of all. And you know what? How we solve that is what we had to define. It started with angel investors that were female that introduced us to their friends and opened up their Rolodex. And they really understood our purpose. And I don’t know if it’s okay to swear on this podcast, but we say we know assholes on our cap table, and we have stayed true to that. And it has done us well because the people on our cap table are people that are on this journey with us, and they’ve become advisors and friends and mentors and all those things. So fundraising went terribly in the beginning. It was relatively easy, given our backgrounds, to get into thousands of retailers across the country but it was not making the impact. Quite frankly, it wasn’t even profitable for us because of the distributors that we were working through. So there were a lot of challenges. And then to make that decision to pull out of retail and to lean into a business that we weren’t sure what it was going to be. But what we did know is if this was all going to be worth it, it had to make a real impact. And this is real change. Putting a or another organic box of tampons on the shelf is beautiful, and we were so incredibly proud of it, but that’s not real change. Real change is changing. Making societal change and changing the idea that there should be wherever there’s toilet paper. And we’re getting so much momentum from the private sector in hopes to put this to the public sector, and that the whole idea is that our daughters aren’t going to remember ever going to a restroom where there isn’t period products. They’re actually going to say to us, well, that’s dumb. Why wouldn’t they be right there where you need them? Like, that’s dumb just like all these other incredible innovations that have happened in our lifetime. Then we’ve really made a difference, and we’re not going to be able to do this alone. I’m going to give you another Shelley’s Ellis quote, Shelley Ellis said, and this is wrong. So true for us on this journey. And what we’ve learned is, a woman alone can have power, but together or collectively we have impact. And that is something we have learned that we need to continue to do. You know, you had a guest on your podcast who said, don’t manage your business behind your desk like we are out there. We are networking. We are meeting people. You had another guest that said, talk to three strangers every day. We talked to a lot of strangers. We talked to everybody I met.  Wait, I met Edie because we were at JP Morgan Chase, and I followed her. What I thought was the bathroom. Eddie and I ended up in the supply closet together.  And it made for a great conversation. And then she said, all the best business happens in the lady’s room. But I think that as a whole like this, this is a collective movement of women that are committed to making change and so passionate about it. And they’re lifting each other up like these whole groups of women. And these organizations didn’t exist even when we were coming up. So to see this, this wave, and this movement, like, we’re absolutely going to do this because we have so many people around us that are helping to push that rock up the hill.

Denielle Finkelstein: And I would say just really quickly when it comes to thinking about our mistakes or where we’ve been. Here’s the beauty of both me and Thyme and it’s taken time. But I also think it’s because of where we came from. We’ve learned from each one of them. We have reflected on what we learn from those mistakes. We haven’t moved fast. And you look back and you’re like, damn it. Like we should have known better. but it is. I think that’s the biggest piece. And for the two of us, we are so grateful that we get to do this together. Because also, as co-founders, having someone there at all times to bounce something off versus being a founder is very lonely, and we find it even as co-founders. And so really thinking that we get this opportunity to be like, yeah, when we screw up or when things are bad or whatever they are, we can actually be like, okay, how are we going to navigate through this? What do we need to do? What did we do? What are we not going to do again? And I think that’s the skill that we definitely have brought because of where we were. And it has helped us move through some of these tough times because there have been a ton. But now that’s the beauty of where we’re sitting in the business is that because of so many of those mistakes and because we did the Blue Ocean and because we saw the green shoots.  We’re so focused now, and that focus has really helped us drive the business even better than what we would have anticipated because we’ve been like, okay, we’ve seen all the things. Let’s move those things out. Let’s really get that focus down. And having that now is really pushing, especially with our team that’s pushing the flywheel faster and faster which is the exciting piece. Now that we’re seeing that there is that momentum that’s taking this to where this real change is happening.

Andi Simon: You know, it’s interesting. One side of me wants to ask how you scale up and the other side wants to ask if it’s a movement. There are two different questions. Let’s take the movement question because that’s really a future oriented one. In some ways we can worry about scaling up at some point. But I’m really curious about what you talk about. This isn’t about a product. It’s not about, simply another option. This is about a transformation that’s going to be a movement. But that means that you also are seeing a future where you guys are going to be transforming the way stuff deals with women, and women can feel important and trusted and special and appreciated, I think. Any thoughts about next steps on the movement?

Thyme Sullivan: The next step is that we’ve been very fortunate to meet some amazing people and have a lot of traction in corporate America as an employee benefit. But really, where this moves and I’ll give you some crazy examples. I just spoke last week to a chapter of National Women in Construction, our organization. There are women in so many industries, and there are so many horror stories that they’re on a jobsite and they’re in a there’s porta potties and they’re single ply toilet paper, and they have to leave the site, or they’re changing their products in a crane. And like, there’s women in manufacturing, there’s women in automotive. There’s women in all these different and all these places that you don’t think. We can’t find a single woman who doesn’t have a story that changes things. And if I go back to, how do we end up in the room with Jamie Dimon? Here’s how I was, because our banker, our story resonated with her. She is an incredible woman. She’s a beautiful woman. She talks about when I went to my first job interview, I had this beautiful white suit. It was my dream job. I went to the lady’s room just before my interview, and I got my period, and I was wearing a white suit. She’s like, there was nothing there. She’s like, I left, and I didn’t get the job. She’s like not having period products quite like absolutely changed the trajectory of my life. And this wasn’t a period poverty story. This was just going to a job interview, and I didn’t get that job.  I had to leave because I got my period. And then on the flip side, you know, the woman who runs this, she owns a construction company, said, I grew up really poor in Alabama. And she goes, and I would go to school with socks or rags or whatever. And she said, and one day my teacher actually had to send me home because I bled through and I couldn’t go back to school, like you hear. By the way, it is funny that every time we go anywhere people want to hear our period story. We’re like, absolutely, absolutely.

Andi Simon: But the problem is there are so many of them.

Thyme Sullivan: When there’s not one woman that hasn’t had something happen to them or somebody they know, and there’s not one man that doesn’t have a mother or a sister or a daughter or a wife or whatever. Everybody’s got somebody in their life. It impacts absolutely everybody. And it’s not one of those things that our biggest challenge is just how do we get more people aware of it? Because once you’re aware. Often men are like, absolutely. I just didn’t think of it like, of course, like I’m not walking around with toilet paper. This makes no sense. So it’s really the movement is more about how it’s about just getting the word out because it.

Andi Simon:  So if I have one wish for our podcast, when we send it to every woman out there who we can find who’s connected to it, because this is a very simple solution to a very big problem that hasn’t been addressed at all in a very laborious way for ever and ever. I mean, when you think about it, it is truly transformational. You might call it a movement, but I think this is just beyond imagining.  It’s not even a company of purpose. This is a time where and where I know women in that automotive industry who haven’t.  And porta potties barely sometimes have toilet paper.

Denielle Finkelstein:  It’s actually been over the last 2 or 3 years. So when we started six years ago, not one state had any legislation that they had to provide period products for K through 12. In the last three years, 28 states have passed legislation to provide period products for its early fifth grade through 12th grade. But that change alone means that you’re now starting to see that momentum happen. Prisons are now being mandated. Also, Canada passed a law last year that all federally regulated buildings have to provide period products. So you’re seeing this in our lifetime. So it is about now that we know that this is happening. Now put it where women actually need it and get the privacy police in there. Now you’re also having a lot of conversations about inclusion. You have gender neutral bathrooms. And so by putting this in there are so many elements that now come into play that this is where that transformation is really happening and doing it at a very low cost and a back to your word earlier like this is simple. Everything we do, we joke like this is the easy button. Get the staples easy button out because that is what we do. Like it’s just push that. And that’s what you know, that’s the goal is that there shouldn’t be a barrier to it, and it shouldn’t be complicated.

Thyme Sullivan: Hey, shout out to Staples. They’re one of our favorite distributors. We love them. Thank you.

Andi Simon:  You’re right. But it is. It really brings a warmth to me to see what you’re doing and how difficult it’s been for anyone else to imagine a solution that was so right in front of them. And I do think this is a Blue Ocean where you’ve created a new market that has just unmet needs waiting for you. It fits so beautifully. It’s so exciting to listen. Okay, we’re just about ready to wrap, much to my chagrin. We’ll talk about scaling up some other time because it doesn’t matter right now. The question is, how do we get everyone demanding that their company put it into their ladies’ room? And that’s just the message. Go for it, guys. A last thought or two that you don’t want the listener to forget.

Thyme Sullivan: Just ask, ladies. Just ask. Because when you ask, like, that’s all you’ve got to do. And be bold and just ask. It’s not a difficult ask. I think I’ll leave you this. You ask for, like, one of the mistakes that we made. There were times when we were in some business slumps where we forgot to have fun. And it’s bringing it back to you can do anything, but you might as well enjoy it.  And this is as much a movement and a job and an entrepreneur and a company. It’s a lifestyle for us. But I’m always quoting my favorite entrepreneurs, Sarah Blakely. Sarah Blakely said you can do serious things without taking yourself too seriously. That resonates with us because every time we’ve slipped into kind of these, we’re like, wait a minute. Like, we can still do this and have fun and enjoy the ride and enjoy this journey. You know, the journey isn’t this is not an end game for us. This is because we’ve gotten to experience so many things and meet so many people along this way. We wouldn’t trade it for anything. It has been such an incredible opportunity, and we wouldn’t trade it for anything. And I think we’ve learned to enjoy the journey and have fun along the way.

Andi Simon:  Yeah. Agree more. Yes. Ditto. Ditto. Denielle. Thoughts?

Denielle Finkelstein: I Would echo so much of that. and it probably is my favorite thing that I get to have fun doing this with Thyme.  I think the big thing is clearly, you can see we are extremely passionate about this. When you find passion and purpose together, the power is just unstoppable. That’s my song. My song is see the unstoppable. That is how we feel because when you can marry those two, it’s incredible. But to that fun piece, it’s also our energy. Like we know that we are big energy people and it’s utilizing our energy in the best way and really bringing that forward. I say this often and Thyme’s heard this so many times because at the end of the day, what that energy then also thinks when we think about it is we’re in the business of humans. So what we do every single day, yes, we sell a product, but really what we do is we are just doing something to make humankind better. And that is really like we’re putting that passion and putting that purpose and all of those parts.  But it comes back to the human and that’s what we get to actually impact so many women and men truly, at the end of the day, also with what we’re doing. And that’s the part that if people can have those, the fun piece, if they can really figure it out, look, we’ve got bad days where our energy sometimes isn’t always great. We have to remember when we need to put in the right energy. But also, it’s just when you can find your passion and that purpose together. It is. It’s so powerful.

Andi Simon: Well, I am honored to have you with us today. You have no idea what joy you have brought to this lady. And I’m hoping that we just stay in touch and celebrate the steps along your journey. It isn’t a destination. You’re right. Life is a journey. And you’re taking some bold moves that you are not even sure where they came from. But boy are you fortunate to have each other, to have fun along the way and to begin to really see, feel and think in new ways. Thank you for joining me today. Let me rap for all of you who come. Thank you for your emails, for the suggestions. These are wonderful times to be a sharing person because it isn’t about me. It’s about we, and it’s about how we can be transforming the world one step at a time. And who knew that as you left your corporate jobs, something would open up? It wasn’t by design; it was by chance. And you are blessed to have such a wonderful opportunity. My books are available on Amazon, and they are there to help you see, feel, and think in new ways. My book with Edie Frazier, Women Mean Business, is selling like gangbusters, so go enjoy it. There are 102 women in there, much like these two women today who want to help you see, feel, and think of new ways. One recurring theme in there is believe in yourself. And I do think if you believe in yourself, the rest of it happens. It doesn’t happen in the straight way, but boy does it happen. So my friends, thank you again. I’m going to say goodbye. Have a great day. Remember. Turn your observations into innovations and get off the brink. It’s a good time to have fun. Bye.

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