On this episode of On the Brink with Andi Simon, we explore the fascinating world of podcasting—its past, present, and potential future. Joining me are two extraordinary guests: Chad Parizman, founder of Adder Communications and a podcast consultant with years of experience helping brands harness the power of audio, and Mark Schaefer, a renowned marketing expert, author, and podcaster. Together, we delve into the transformative role of podcasts in today’s rapidly evolving media landscape.
Podcasting’s Emergence and Growth
Podcasting has exploded, with over 4.2 million podcasts worldwide and a steadily growing audience. Chad’s journey began at Pfizer, where he introduced podcasting as a tool for internal and external communications. His experience revealed podcasting as a medium with endless possibilities for storytelling, marketing, and engagement. He emphasized that podcasts aren’t one-size-fits-all—they can be interview-based, documentary-style, seasonal, or entirely unique. The key, according to Chad, is to let the content dictate the format, not the other way around.
Mark’s introduction to podcasting stemmed from curiosity and a desire to expand his expertise beyond blogging. His strategy? Start small and sustain joy. “To stand out,” he explains, “you’ve got to be great and passionate about what you’re doing.” Over 13 years, Mark’s podcast evolved with rotating co-hosts, reflecting his belief in relevance—matching passion and skills to the needs of the audience.
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Why Podcasting Works
Both guests agree: podcasting is about authenticity, trust, and human connection. Unlike polished social media or video content, podcasts offer a raw and personal experience. As Mark points out, “A podcast is one of the last bastions of truly human, authentic, and trusted content.” Chad adds that technology, including AI tools, is making it easier than ever to focus on creating compelling content while automating time-consuming tasks like editing and research.
The Future of Podcasting
Relevance and purpose remain at the heart of successful podcasts. As Chad notes, listeners are increasingly drawn to niche content tailored to their interests, often willing to pay for it through subscription services. Mark believes podcasting will remain a critical medium for building authentic relationships, both for individuals and brands.
AI also looms large in podcasting’s future. While tools like voice synthesis can assist with production, Mark and Chad agree that the human element will always be essential for building trust and emotional connections.
Key Takeaways
- Podcasting’s Personal Connection
- Podcasts thrive on authenticity and human connection. Great podcasts make listeners feel like they’re part of a meaningful conversation, not just an audience.
- Creative Formats for Great Podcasts
- Break away from traditional weekly interviews. Experiment with formats like solo episodes, seasonal releases, or well-researched documentary-style series.
- The Future of Podcasts is Niche
- Listeners are seeking content that resonates deeply with their interests. Building a small but loyal audience is often more impactful than chasing mass appeal.
- AI Can Enhance Podcasting
- From editing to show notes, AI tools streamline production, freeing creators to focus on storytelling and delivering value. However, authenticity remains key.
- Monetization Through Passion and Purpose
- Podcasts with clear goals and dedicated followings are increasingly supported through subscriptions and direct listener funding. Be top of heart, not just top of mind.
- Podcasting’s Future is Bright
- With a growing listener base and its unique ability to build trust, podcasting is poised to remain a dominant medium for content creation and marketing.
Final Thoughts
Podcasting is no longer just a hobby; it’s a powerful medium for storytelling, brand building, and connecting with audiences on a deeper level. Whether you’re a podcaster, a listener, or considering starting your own show, this episode offers insights into how to thrive in this exciting and ever-changing space.
Let us know your thoughts—where do you see podcasting heading next?
Other Podcasts you will enjoy include:
407: Shaping the Future: Dr. Emily Springer on Responsible AI in Business
396:Mark Schaefer: The Customer is Changing. How Can We Build a Community Through Marketing?
406: The Greatest Journey of a Woman Entrepreneur in Mental Health: Dr. Barbara Brown’s Story
Additional resources for you
- My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Business and On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
- Our latest book, Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, coauthored with Edie Fraser and Robyn Freedman Spizman
- All of our white papers, particularly those on Blue Ocean Strategy
- Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants
Reach out and contact us if you want to see how a little anthropology can help your business grow. Let’s Talk!
From Observation to Innovation,
CEO | Corporate Anthropologist | Author
Simonassociates.net
Info@simonassociates.net
@simonandi
LinkedIn
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Andi Simon
00:00:02
Welcome to On the Brink with Andy Simon. Today we have a very special On the Brink podcast. I have two gentlemen with us who are going to help us really dig deep into how podcasting has emerged, surged and where it’s going next. And so I want to tell you a little bit about why it’s so important for you to listen in or watch, because this is a time of great transformation on our communications. Now, I’m a podcaster, Chad Parizman is a great podcaster. He’s got a great podcast company called The Podcast Consultant. He’s been in marketing for a long time. And Marc Shafer, you can listen to some of his podcasts on On the Brink. And he and I have had a great time talking about the future of marketing and where podcasting comes from, where it goes to, and why it’s ready for perhaps a rethinking. So, gentlemen, thank you for joining me today. It’s been a pleasure meeting with you and talking to you. And I think we are ready to drop right in and begin our conversation.
Andi Simon
00:01:02
The reason for today is that the times they are changing and they’re fast changing, and when speed is really moving things along, humans hate it. The brain hates change. But now it’s an opportunity for us to rethink what’s going on and how we can go about it in a great way. There are 4.2 million podcasts globally and 109 million people in the US. Many of those podcasts are inactive, but that’s fine. It’s easy to get into, but there’s something here that’s really going on. I’m going to start with Chad. Introduce yourself a little bit. Whose Chad and how did you get into podcast consulting and what do you see happening?
Chad Parizman
00:01:41
sure. So thanks so much for having me. I am Chad Parizman, and I got into podcast creation consulting, kind of maybe a little bit backwards from the way that a lot of folks did it. I was actually working at Pfizer, so I ran digital communications at Pfizer for a number of years, and while I was there, we were trying to get a podcast resource off the ground out of my team.
Chad Parizman
00:02:09
We were pitching it. We were talking about it with a lot of internal stakeholders. and then in back in 2019, it started to take off. You know, I was doing a lot of development inside of the company. We were launching external podcasts. And then during Covid, we actually had a lot of interest. Everyone went home and we were looking for ways to distribute information in a different way. And so the idea of internal podcasting became very popular. and basically what happened was I got a side gig as part of my main gig, which was during the day I was still running the team, but at night we were recording and producing and editing and shipping podcasts internally. And so along with kind of being a producer, I learned editing and I learned about all the tools for remote recording and making your sound better. And then when I left Pfizer after, you know, kind of largely the pandemic was deemed over. I wasn’t sure what I was going to do. And very quickly had people call me up saying, hey, you did that over there.
Chad Parizman
00:03:14
Can you come do that for my brand? Can you come do that for my company? And I did. That was not my goal, but very quickly found out that there was a need. And we can talk about it a little bit more. But I really saw podcasting where social media was maybe about a decade before, where lots of brands wanted to do it. They weren’t doing it really well in house, and they really needed some guidance to understand the landscape, the tools, the technology. And so for the last, you know, almost four years now, I’ve been working with some fantastic brands and helping them get off the ground, helping them retool and helping them think about how podcasting really fits in with their other Communications and marketing strategies. Yeah, yeah.
Andi Simon
00:03:56
You know, but this is storytelling at its best. It’s a new medium, but in fact it’s taking what you did so well and expand it. We’ll talk in a minute about the lessons you’ve learned and how to help other people as they think about it.
Andi Simon
00:04:09
But Mark, how did you get into this other than your guru in marketing? And it seemed to be maybe a natural fit, but please share your story.
Mark Schaefer
00:04:18
Well, it was a measured decision for me, actually, because I believe very strongly that to stand out in the world, you’ve got to be great. You can’t be in a dozen different places. You have to find a channel and really master it. And for me, that channel was blogging. I am a natural writer, I enjoy writing, and, but I was curious about podcasting and, and, you know, I’m a teacher, I’m a consultant. And so I felt like I really needed to learn how to do it, to be a better teacher, and so I wanted to do it in a way that really wouldn’t interrupt my blogging or, you know, take too much time away from my blogging. So I came up with this idea that other than most people that do a podcast every week, I would do mine every other week.
Mark Schaefer
00:05:16
And part of the reason was because if I did it every week, it would be too much work. And, you’ve got to have joy, you’ve got to have enthusiasm, or the audience can tell. So it was important for me to create this in a way that would be joyful. So I had one co-host and we had a good, a good chemistry, a good friendship, a good sort of intellectual bond that created great, discussions. And so we did it every other week for about six years, and then his job changed where he wasn’t really doing marketing anymore. So I kind of had to reinvent myself. And today I’m in my 13th year and I have a I have six rotating co-hosts on my show. And to kind of give me the opportunity to paint on a bigger canvas rather than just talk to one person, but it still creates, you know, it creates the show every other week in a way that that brings joy to me. That isn’t two to, time consuming.
Mark Schaefer
00:06:24
And now it’s. Yeah, you know, it’s just something I, I look forward to. I think it’s really helped build the brand a lot. And, and I wanted to, to build on something that Chad said about why now, why podcasting is, is growing so much now and why I started in blogging. So in the early days of the internet, blogging was really all you had. We didn’t have the bandwidth; we didn’t have the technology to effectively create video or even podcast. It would take forever to upload these things. So, so, so blogging was sort of the entry content. And then video came along, and podcasting came along a little later. And the reason why it’s exploding is because it’s still an underserved need. Right. So people learn in different ways. They learn by reading or by listening or by viewing, maybe even by doing, which is where the metaverse might come in. and augmented reality, so podcasting is behind. And, you know, one statistic that I sort of thing is amazing is Edison Research does a study every year.
Mark Schaefer
00:07:37
And this year they showed that the, the person, the average podcast listener listens to nine podcasts a week. Two years ago it was five. So I mean, that’s just incredible. And it just shows that there’s still there’s still an underserved need out there. I think for podcasting.
Andi Simon
00:07:58
The word underserved is an interesting word because, to some degree, the podcaster. so our podcast emerged out of my first book, and my PR woman said, you need a podcast. And I went, okay. So I went on a couple of podcasts, and I went, those were terrible. There must be a better way of doing it. So the catalyst was, can you tell this is storytelling? I’m an anthropologist and I love to tell stories that make things come alive for people. So the title On the Brink with Andy Simon came off the book On the Brink Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights and brand building was part of the objective of my clients across the globe, but the other part was that I learned that I love to interview people and have Conversations.
Andi Simon
00:08:46
And what better way to find interesting people than through now a podcast. Now, the interesting part for me is that it’s selfish. or it’s selfless. I can’t tell which it is. Am I doing something for others, for myself? Or is it okay to do both? But it’s an interesting time because the question I have is I fallen into a habit and the routines are pretty much the same. The folks who I bring on or similar, and am I ready to think about it in a new fashion? So I’m anxious to hear about the lessons that you have each learned, and I’ll share some of those that I’m beginning to observe, because I actually went back to look at past podcasts to say, what do I like, what I’ve done, and what would I have done differently, and what’s coming out in the new community that’s beginning to build. So, you know, Chad, I’ll go back to you lessons you’ve learned, things you’re seeing ways as a consultant consult with us and for the audience about, you know, what’s hot and what’s not, and what we should move from to.
Chad Parizman
00:09:45
Yeah. I mean, you know, so many things. And I think Mark really exemplified this, right? I think a lot of people have the idea of like what a podcast is, right? And that that’s probably based off of whatever your favorite podcast or, you know, one, one of the eight podcasts that you’re listening to in the week. And right, whether that’s smartness or whether that’s, you know, a Joe Rogan, right where it’s like, oh, I have to do it every week. It has to be a conversation, show it, you know, and the reality is, is and when I talk with folks out there in brands like podcasting is not just one thing anymore. And so I think expanding that where it can be a solo show, it can be, hey, you know, once a month it is getting a roundtable, but after that maybe it is more documentary style, well researched. maybe we only do seasons, right? And we record ten episodes, and we release them in the spring.
Chad Parizman
00:10:42
In the fall. Right. So I think that’s the first thing that I go to is, is don’t put your podcast in a, in a box. Podcasting is about the delivery mechanism. It’s how people consume it. It’s audio. It’s increasingly becoming video. But there are some parameters that I think we can all kind of agree on, you know, a podcast when you see it. But beyond that, you know, there’s lots of room for, for new ways to explore, the, the medium. And so, you know, that’s the first thing I think of, and then, you know, the second thing is I look on the technology side and again, a lot of people go to what kind of microphone, what do I what’s the software that I need. And, and there’s so many things out there that that’s not the stuff to be worrying about. Right. And it should be about how, what makes this compelling. Right. So why do it in a podcasting format? To Mark’s point, you could be writing blog posts, you could be doing incredibly produced videos.
Chad Parizman
00:11:39
You could go out and make a documentary and hope to go win awards. There’s lots of ways for brands and for individuals to get their name out there. What is unique about podcasting? Why do you think that this medium is the way to tell your story and effectively communicate? And then let’s work back from there. You know, if this is about driving sales or to your point, you know, if you’re an author. Absolutely right. Number one way, every publishing company right now is how many podcasts can we get you on? You should be launching a podcast and that’s to get book sales. Right. And then we can talk about maybe how effective that has been. Is that still effective. But when I talk with brands it’s okay. What is the thing that this ladder’s back up to. How is it going to meet whatever your business need is. And let’s make sure that those two things, are in sync, because microphones are not the number one thing we need to be worrying about podcasting, right? It’s there’s lots of ways to get it from, you know, the recording all the way out to, you know, how someone consumes the content.
Andi Simon
00:12:45
Stay on that for one more moment, and then I’ll. I’ll refer to Mark and his thoughts. Because I was on one podcast, I was on ten podcast last year, and one of the women said, this is my last podcast. And I said, then why am I on it? It was one of those, what’s the point? And it was demoralizing for me. I couldn’t rise to the occasion, I’m sure. But on the other hand, I had to ask myself, why are you doing this? And that becomes your point. Why are we doing this? And don’t go do it unless you have passion and purpose. Because if not, it’s a lot of work. But it’s also it just occupies space. There’s no point to it at all. Mark your thoughts. Lessons learned.
Mark Schaefer
00:13:25
Yeah, well, a couple of things. You know, just based on your great story. There is, one time I got to interview the great author, Tom Peters, and he was retiring.
Mark Schaefer
00:13:40
He wrote his last book. He was retiring. And then two years later, he had a new book out, and I was interviewing him again. Again. And I said, you, what’s the deal? You told me you’re retired. He said, I’m desperate to get my ideas out. And he said, he said, in fact, that’s what makes the greatest speaker, the greatest author, the greatest podcast. If people just have a burn, something’s burning inside of them that they just want to, you know, tell the world or help the world or get their ideas out. And certainly that’s the way it is for me. I mean, I have a lot of ideas. I’m passionate about a lot of things when it comes to marketing, and I feel like most people haven’t listened to me yet, but I want to keep going. You know, the other thing is, you know, listening to you and, you know, as you’re thinking about, well, what’s you know, what’s next, I think, you know, one of the key ideas about an effective podcast is, is relevance, because there is a lot of competition out there, and relevance for me is sort of matching your skills, your passion, the thing that’s burning in your heart with what’s going on in the world, how do I serve them right now? And the image I use in a lot of my talks is a surfer.
Mark Schaefer
00:15:02
So like what you’re good at your core competency, what you sort of build your personal brand on that’s like your surfboard. That’s not going to I mean, you’re going to keep learning and you’re going to keep evolving, but you’re not going to change your surfboard. That’s what that’s what brought you here to be relevant. You don’t need a new surfboard. You need a new wave. So what’s going on in the world that you know, what’s the wave you need to catch to be newly relevant? So. So that’s sort of the idea I have around, you know, how my content, has, has evolved to sort of say, well, this is what I’m passionate about. This is what I’m good about. Good at. How do I serve the world now? How do I serve the world now? How can I be newly relevant in my show?
Andi Simon
00:15:54
But you said you said a couple of things. You know, you’re a teacher. And I was a professor, and I do a lot of workshops in speaking, and I like to share ideas, but I also like to get other people engaged in the sharing of the ideas, so it becomes their idea.
Andi Simon
00:16:09
So it’s an interesting time. The medium here is sort of fascinating to some degree. This podcast developed because I saw how many people, Donald Trump reached through podcast that his college aged son had urged him to do. And of course, he had four years to do it. But Kamala had, you know, a 10th of that, and didn’t go on Joe Rogan and Rogan and, and so you, you have sort of this kind of, moment where you’re saying, you know, speaking to whom and how do I do it? And how do I use the medium for a purpose? Now, you could say it’s for brand building. You can do it for resource sharing, whatever you might like. And then I asked my granddaughter, who’s 15, do you listen to podcasts? Oh, yeah. Grandma, I just love the ones on, you know, on cold cases where they’re trying to figure out. And I said, you’re listening to ones on cold cases. Now, who would have thought? But that’s my future.
Andi Simon
00:17:06
And, and I said, yeah, I’m so curious. I want to know how they do it. And the, the mystery is so I. So on that note, I’ll go back to you guys. So what is the relevance for the future? I’m going to start with Mark on this one and then come to you Chad, because you know, in some ways, Mark, you always open up this can of ideas and to some degree, I share with you the desire to be both relevant and to know what my listeners would like to know more about so they can get off the brink. Your thoughts? What do you see coming in terms of relevance for you, perhaps, or for others?
Mark Schaefer
00:17:39
Yeah, well, I mean, this is something that Chad and I have actually talked, quite a bit about, and that the thing that makes me enthused about, about podcasting is, is that I think it is the last bastion of, of truly human, authentic, trusted content. Right.
Mark Schaefer
00:18:02
And it kind of goes hand in hand with you with your personal brand. Right? Because we live in this world where there’s so much disinformation. And I’ve said that the number one question on all of our customers minds from now on is it real? Right. I mean, we, I mean I, you know when I look at Instagram or YouTube, I mean I have no idea what is even real anymore when I look, you know, I look at these videos or look at these images, but a podcast, it’s like a human being. And like Chad said, you can’t really fake it, right? it’s human, it’s authentic. It’s trustworthy. And I think that’s really important from two different perspectives. Number one, for building your own brand and creating this, you know, authentic human message. Podcasting is a great medium, but also as a, as a as an advertiser. You know, this this is one of the last places left where, you know, there’s corporate ads on podcasts, and these ads are being presented by the person that you trust most, the host of the podcast.
Mark Schaefer
00:19:15
So I think, you know, both as a, as a medium and also as an advertising channel. Podcasting holds a unique still holds, I think, a unique place in the world.
Andi Simon
00:19:27
If managed well. That is very true. Chad, how about your thoughts?
Chad Parizman
00:19:32
Yeah, I mean, you’re just trying. I mean, I think what Mark said was I absolutely agree with. And so, you know, maybe just to build on that, I think, I think actually the technology that we’re having mostly right in the, in the AI space and some of these other tools are going to it’s funny to think about, I think the technology will actually empower people to be more real. Right. If that if that kind of makes sense. Because if I don’t have to worry about, hey, does my microphone placement, right? Right. If I can use a tool that just makes me sound better than I am today, and then I can use another tool that helps me put together my show notes and another tool to help me research guests.
Chad Parizman
00:20:17
Right? People that maybe I’ve never even thought about, and I can use. Right? There’s a lot of these things as you start to stack it up. What that lets you do is that it frees up your brain from having to worry about all the little minutia to worrying about. Going back to what is a great content. Hey, I can finally get Mark Schaefer on my podcast. How do I think about making that the best conversation I can have? Hey, you know, maybe because I’ve done 50 episodes, I can, you know, I don’t I’m not worried about trying to go and get Mark Cuban. Maybe I’m not worried about trying to go. And yet, you know, asking Carmelo or asking, you know, my state governor who’s going to be running, you know, who’s got a primary next year, whatever it is. You know, I think by being able to build up that trust because of being able to leverage all this technology, it lets us free ourselves to focus back on the content, the conversation.
Chad Parizman
00:21:15
You know, we’re having this this great talk right now. You had an idea of what we were going to talk about, but we could throw a curveball your way and we’re going to be free to have the conversation go someplace totally different. There’s very few other formats that that let you do that besides podcasting.
Andi Simon
00:21:34
My hope is like other things where we’ve had lots, you know, we had lots of cars being made and now we have few and you can choose among them. But it’s not like in black. We had lots of bicycle dealers and then it shrunk down to a few. I’m a horse person. We had lots of folks who were raising horses and now we have a few. My hope to your point, though, is that if the podcast hosts can understand the role, they’re playing in building authenticity and communicating reality and owning a space that others can learn from or enjoy or however you want to define it, then it doesn’t have to shrink into, you know, five corporate ones and three others.
Andi Simon
00:22:23
You know, I don’t care whether it’s, you know, 4.2 million or 1 million, but the idea is that people can come and share, honest thoughts and bring others there to expand your wisdom and begin to think about different models within this technology that allows you to do it. And it’s not expensive. You don’t need corporate underwriting, if you want to make money out of go for it. But I, I almost like not monetizing it. And Mark, I’m watching your face. What are you thinking about? Dear Mark.
Mark Schaefer
00:22:51
My face is so transparent, I just can’t help it.
Speaker 4
00:22:53
No, but I love you.
Mark Schaefer
00:22:54
Could you tell when the wheels are turning up.
Speaker 4
00:22:57
They are,
Mark Schaefer
00:22:58
Well, a couple of things. first of all, you know, this this idea of, being afraid because the world is seemingly so saturated. Can you really build an audience? And I think the idea is that media is very fragmented. You know, I don’t think it’s going to consolidate into, you know, big, you know, mega things.
Mark Schaefer
00:23:26
There is some of that going on. but I think there’s still room because if you think about how content is consumed today, you know, everybody’s not sitting around a television at 6:00 at night to see, you know, the NBC news.
Speaker 4
00:23:42
Unless you’re.
Andi Simon
00:23:43
65 and older.
Speaker 4
00:23:45
Yeah.
Mark Schaefer
00:23:46
Yeah. Right. Right. But we’ve got, you know, we’ve got our earbuds in and we’re consuming our favorite music and our favorite podcasts and our favorite audiobooks. It doesn’t really matter what the mass media is. It’s our media. We’re our own media channel. And I and I think if someone concentrates on look, you know, I’m not I’m I might not be top of mind. I might not be Joe Rogan. But what if I’m top of heart that the audience that really matters to me. They love me. They care about me. And is that an audience big enough, you know, to help me make my dreams come true, whatever that might be. I think that’s a better way to look at it.
Mark Schaefer
00:24:33
Rather than trying to be afraid of the numbers and try to, like, grow the numbers and have some dominance. But are you creating an audience that matters where you are top of heart? You know, maybe not just top of mind and what I mean by that. If I said to someone, you know, name a soft drink, they’d probably say Coca Cola. And I say, what’s your favorite soft drink? I’d say Fresca, which is a delightful drink, by the way. And, so I mean, Fresca is in top of mind, but it’s top of heart. And that’s where that’s where the business is, right? I buy Fresca, I don’t buy Coke.
Speaker 4
00:25:11
So and so.
Andi Simon
00:25:13
Good.
Chad Parizman
00:25:13
Real good. I was just going to build on that. You know, I would actually argue I think podcasts are becoming mass media though, right. And we’re.
Speaker 4
00:25:20
Seeing places.
Chad Parizman
00:25:21
Yeah. Regularly again, going back to the most recent election, we know that there are podcasts out there being consumed at a higher rate, then cable news, then nightly news.
Chad Parizman
00:25:35
Right. And so I think that’s there’s a lot of things where individuals are leaving mass media companies to basically stand up their own solo media. And we’re we’ve seen all kinds of examples. Right. The guys from reply all they left that they left Gimlet Media, which is bought by Spotify. They now have their own podcasts that, are basically supported by subscriptions. And I think this goes back to, you know, Mark, if you can be top of heart, I actually think you can be top of wallet. Right. And I think there’s if you’re talking about what’s next, I do think we are about to see an explosion of people, you know, I’d rather pay five, eight, $10 to support a creator individually than another streaming service or, you know, CNN plus or, you know, whatever that, you know, whatever happens to be to gain access to a mass medium, even though it might feel like I get I get more quantity. You’re going to choose quality. And I’d rather get an exclusive newsletter and an exclusive podcast from someone that I really enjoy listening to, and I’m willing to pay for that much more than I am willing to pay for something.
Chad Parizman
00:26:50
That gives me a lot. But I probably it’s not the first thing I read when I see that newsletter, you know.
Speaker 4
00:26:56
Let me ask you a question.
Mark Schaefer
00:26:57
Yeah. So like, what is there so in the in the writing world that’s Substack. Yeah. Right. So you have a certain amount of your top of heart. Yep. And then you become, you can become top of wallet because you love this person and you’re to subscribe to the newsletter. Is there a Substack for podcasting?
Chad Parizman
00:27:19
So Substack does podcasting. You can distribute behind the paywall podcasts on Substack. Patreon has made a lot of efforts to get into the podcasting space, to make it easier for both the creators and the listeners to get access to those exclusive podcasts. and there are I’m trying to think of there are a number of other, that have kind of stood out. I mean, obviously Apple and Spotify both have, you know, there are premium podcasts that you can. That’s why you can. They kind of change the name, right? I follow a free podcast; I subscribe to a paid podcast.
Chad Parizman
00:27:59
So there are some of those that are existing out there. And I think we’ll only continue to see more, not only the technology getting better, but people mass adopting them. Yeah.
Mark Schaefer
00:28:11
Makes sense.
Speaker 4
00:28:12
Well, you.
Andi Simon
00:28:12
Know, as I’m listening to you. I have neither a subscriber nor a follower, but I have binge lovers. I have people who get Ahold of me and say, I’ve been binging on your podcast, and I’m laughing at the stories. I just go one after another, after another and after another, and it inspires my day. And I go, wow. And so it’s not a subscriber, it’s not a follower, but I’m satisfying an addiction. And who knew that you could binge on a podcast? But it’s a very interesting moment to think through what you’re saying, because you can begin to see the changes. So if you’re a listener or a viewer today, the question for you is where do you fit into this wonderful world that’s emerging? And how do you begin to think about the purpose that you have, the significance you’d like, and maybe some profit at the same time? Because I have a hunch those with some profits are going to move in one direction, and those who are binge lovers are going to perhaps, maybe move in, maybe another.
Andi Simon
00:29:09
But I’ve never thought of this. The Substack is a vehicle, but these are these are interesting conversations. I’m watching our time and I’m anxious to hear it. One last good thought about what your perspective of AI may or may not be in the world of podcasting.
Speaker 4
00:29:26
Mostly because I’m so glad.
Mark Schaefer
00:29:28
You brought that up.
Andi Simon
00:29:29
Well, because people have asked, you know, is yours is real or is it an AI produced one? And, good, good. Mark, what are you thinking?
Mark Schaefer
00:29:37
I mean, it’s funny because, yesterday I just published a part of my podcast episode was two voice synthesized AI bots having a conversation between each other, reviewing a new book that I wrote. And it was quite extraordinary because, you know, the I mean, all I did was upload my book and I said, okay, now, you know, do a review of this book. And they started out saying, oh well, Mark Schaefer, boy, this book is really in line with his other books.
Mark Schaefer
00:30:15
I mean, this is like, there’s no not. I said, I’m thinking, what? But and then there was another piece where I referred to this story at South by Southwest, and the synthesized podcast host says, you know, I attended that event and I’m going, what? Where are you? You know, it’s like and so, you know, it would be.
Speaker 4
00:30:36
Interesting to see the robot.
Andi Simon
00:30:37
There. Go.
Speaker 4
00:30:38
Go. I mean.
Mark Schaefer
00:30:40
There will be a day in the next 12 months, probably, where, you know, you could have my voice synthesis. Me sounds like me. You know, it’s informed. Yeah. By the millions of words of content I’ve put out on the web and the 13 years of podcasts and the videos and everything else, and the book’s having a conversation with some other voice synthesis thing. And, you know, as I said, and Chad and I, you know, agree on this, that, you know, the heart of podcasting is this is this beauty of this, this trusted human voice.
Mark Schaefer
00:31:24
And, and I, I’ve listened to a few of these synthesized podcasts, and there’s something compelling about it because you’re listening to a to, let’s say, a quote unquote, you know, for the podcast people, I’m using air quotes here, quote unquote host that knows everything. It’s I so, so Chad, is this going to be a, a niche product or.
Speaker 4
00:31:50
Or a dominant.
Andi Simon
00:31:52
One.
Speaker 4
00:31:52
Yeah.
Mark Schaefer
00:31:53
That’ll grow into something weird.
Chad Parizman
00:31:56
I think I think it might actually be a mass adopted product for the right things. Right. And so I already, you know, I, we adopted a new dog a few months ago. I walk him every morning. I have my AirPods in, I’m listening to a podcast, but undoubtedly while we’re on our walk, I will get audio notifications from various news sources. And typically it is like the top three headlines of the day. Reading it into my ear right there. I don’t know why that. Like, I should just be able to click play and then I can get an AI generated, you know, news five, five sentences on those on those three things.
Chad Parizman
00:32:35
You know, when I listen to your thing yesterday, Mark, what I texted you was, I think the people that have to worry are like morning show host because that’s what this sounded like, right? Very surface level. Someone read the book, they gave me three sentences about it. We kind of laugh and chuckle. We make the obvious joke, and then we move on to the weather. Right. And so coffee? Yes. And so if I can, if you can teach an AI, not only, hey, here’s the top 20 news stories from overnight, I’m going to serve Chad the three that we think he’s most interested in. And those are going to be different from Mark and from and from Andy. Like, I don’t know why I wouldn’t get that as the eight minute podcast that I listened to in the morning. But that, that doesn’t, you know, that doesn’t go deep, that doesn’t establish a connection. You know, maybe there’s a revenue vehicle there, but I think for some surface level stuff, we will see that.
Chad Parizman
00:33:31
On the flip side, I do think that there are the audio things are just going to get better. And so again, as you think about ways to augment your podcast, you know, I think about somewhat like, Scott Galloway, he has he has this umbrella podcast feed, right? He’s got like multiple different types of shows. And so if you just like Scott, you can subscribe to all of them in one way. One of them is basically takes his weekly op ed email, and someone reads that, and they publish it on Sunday. I don’t think we’re at the place now where I can get an AI voice to read that without you knowing that it’s an AI voice. But fast forward a year from now, we might be pretty close. And so, you know, voice over actors or the people that he pays to kind of to read that. I think, again, we’ll be able to get to that point where if I can do that, it’s not that I’m going to do less, it’s what am I going to do instead of that now? And will I release one more episode a week or will I interview someone different? Right.
Chad Parizman
00:34:33
Those are the types of things that I, that I think if the AI front is what is it? Free me up to do more of, not to do less.
Mark Schaefer
00:34:42
I think the voice synthesis quality is there? I mean, my last audio book was narrated by Voice Synthesis that sounded like me. It was indistinguishable. And so now it’s just a matter of like integrating that into live conversations. And it seems like that’s a very short leap.
Andi Simon
00:35:02
Now add one dimension here which we don’t have time to talk about, but I don’t want to lose. And I had a client in the video gaming industry, and, we were talking about the metaverse, and I had lunch when I was working on that client, and my friend said, oh, my sisters in the dark web, and her husband has fallen in love with his avatar, wants to buy her diamond. And now the whole question is, if we’re going to be living in a surreal metaverse, where does all of this? I mean, think about our conversation.
Andi Simon
00:35:33
We love the people and the truth factor there. And then Mark puts his book up and he has two non-people discussing it. And now if when you think about what’s the next metaverse where we’re going to be living surreal. And the size of that is huge. So last thoughts. Go ahead Chad. Yeah, I’m watching your face. You’re telling me something.
Chad Parizman
00:35:55
Yeah, I mean I don’t know that that’s I mean I know I had friends, you know, 15 years ago that were marrying people in World of Warcraft that they had never met in real life. Right, but had built a relationship and that were married in real life and had kids. But, you know, they live this. So I think the difference now is back then you knew that there was another person at the other end of the computer. Right now. The question is, is that a person or is it is it a bot? Right. And so I think that’s the difference. I don’t know that it’s any different than where we were 20, 30 years ago.
Chad Parizman
00:36:30
And I think, you know, the, and again, we don’t have time for this. I think the biggest difference now is right, this loneliness pandemic that we have and people only connecting, you know, through online means. Right. And we’ve seen all kinds of headlines about the downfalls of that, the pitfalls. you know, lots of things can happen.
Andi Simon
00:36:49
Mark your thoughts.
Mark Schaefer
00:36:52
Well, I guess, you know, one of the things that Chad was sort of hinting at is the importance of trust. and I think to build a brand, whether you’re talking about a company or a person, that you need to be transparent about these things and, and, and, and build trust in all that you do. Steve Jobs famously said, A brand is trust. That’s the simplest way to put it. And I think I’m encouraged that if I think about all the things I cherish most of my life, there’s some human connection to it is it could be a writer that I love, it could be an artist that I love, could be an artisan they love it could be some little, you know, greeting card someone created for me or something, or a piece of furniture that real handmade.
Mark Schaefer
00:37:43
And so I think that’s not going to change going forward. Well, there will always be a place for the humanity, for the human touch, because that’s what we cherish the most.
Andi Simon
00:37:55
And if you haven’t gone to mark Schaefer is uprising down in Knoxville and seen a group of 30 or so people become human and humane to each other with joy. You should take a look at what Mark is offering. I’m going to ask both Mark and Chad to just do a little pitch short advertorial, and then we’ll wrap up this lovely podcast today, and I think we should keep going and come back with a documentary a year from now. How true was our forecast? Mark, your last thought, please.
Mark Schaefer
00:38:27
Well, thanks first of all for having me. I’ve, you and I have talked on a podcast several times, and I would tell anybody, you’re one of the most delightful interviewers I’ve ever had. Always well prepared, always articulate, and really tuned into your guests. So thank you for that and the work you put into your show.
Mark Schaefer
00:38:47
I mean, the easy thing is you could find everything about me at businesses grow.com. It’s hard to spell Schaefer. You don’t have to even remember. That’s why I called it Businesses Grow, because I knew no one would be able to remember how to spell Schaefer. so as businesses grow, my blog is there. It’s free. My podcast is there it’s free. the uprising event that Andy mentioned is probably the best thing I’ve done in my career. Chad’s actually been there. I’m hoping you’ll come in in the spring. yeah, but so businesses.com, you can find out everything about me.
Andi Simon
00:39:26
his newsletter, by the way, the recent one is terrific. And I read them with great, you know, your blogs and your joy and your podcast. And so I’m, I’m a fan. and a friend. Please, Chad. Your last thought.
Chad Parizman
00:39:39
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been great. it’s fantastic meeting you. It’s always a pleasure to have a conversation with Mark.
Chad Parizman
00:39:48
We’ve known each other for a number of years, and so excited that he introduced the two of us. You can find me. I’m at Adder Communications. Is my company and my website adder. Or just look for Chad Parizman. I know all of the Parizmans in the world. We’ve only had the name for three generations. So if you if you look for that, you will definitely find me. I’m pretty much see Parisian on any website that I that I want to be found. So, you know, feel free to, to reach out that way if you want to talk about podcasts and the future and tools and, you know how brands could be leveraging this, this fantastic medium, in a, in a better way.
Andi Simon
00:40:29
Well, and as you know, I bring you on the brink with Andy Simon so you can get off the brink. And I have a hope that today, you if you’re a podcaster, you learn some new things about, what’s coming next and how to have your next season of joy.
Andi Simon
00:40:45
And if you’re thinking about doing it, how to do it and not worry about your microphone, or if you’re listening to it, what is really going on there that has made you such a fan of nine podcasts. And as you walk your dog in the morning, you listen maybe to mine or to Mark or to one that Chad has worked on, but it’s always a pleasure to have you. The emails that come through come from across the globe, and I’m most appreciative. And if you guys have put me in the top 5% of all these 400 million, I can’t thank you enough. I don’t know what that means. our books are all on Amazon. You can see them behind me. On the brink was the first book about how a little anthropology can help your business grow. Rethink was about women smashing the myths of what women can do and women mean. Business is out just about a year now, and it has been solely just fantastic about how women are really meaning business. But I’m fascinated by what podcasting is and does, and I may start blogging along about it because I think there’s something here bigger than a bear.
Andi Simon
00:41:45
Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today and all of my guests. Thank you for coming. Bye now and have a great day. Bye.
